Diahann Carroll in Sunset Blvd

[David10086]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 11:59am

Hello everyone! I'm a newbie here, though lurking for many years. I have to give a big thank you to all for the info you share, and the laugh-out-loud responses to some of the messages. This board can really brighten up a dull day! You all have influenced many decisions I made in seeing B'way shows over the years...a good influence, I must add.

Last month I saw Glenn Close in SB, one of my favorite B'way musicals. I did catch Betty Buckley in 1996, but this time I liked the scaled back staging. Thought Close was wonderful. My question is - did anyone see Diahann Carroll in the role back in Canada in 1995-96?  I've heard so many people say she was the very best 'Norma Desmond' of all on stage. (I do own the cast recording with her, and somewhat ambivalent to her vocals - though overall, it has grown on me over the years.) 

I also recall rumors over the years that she was promised by ALW to replace Glenn Close on B'way at the end of her run in the summer of 1995. His not keeping his promise led to a frosty relationship with him during her run in Canada. Then I read ALW had no intention of having Carroll on B'way; he always wanted her for Canada. (Like all ALW stories with his 'Norma Desmonds', there's conflicting memories from both sides.) Does anyone know for sure if Carroll was initially headed to B'way to replace Close? She seems to me like she would have been a 'big enough' name.

[Demitri2]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 12:13pm

I saw Carroll as Norma in Vancouver. I've seen Buckley and Clark in the role and found Carroll the most disappointing. She walked through the entire show except for the final stairway scene where she finally came to life and did give it her all. For that brief scene she was at the top of her game. But it was almost like....too little too late. In fact it's the first time the Joe character (excellently played by Rex Smith) became the main focus of the show. The audience reacted to him much more than Carroll which was both interesting as well as a testament to his strong stage presence. Being that it was a matinee, maybe Carroll was possibly saving her strength for the evening performance.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 12:19pm

For your viewing pleasure, here's Ms. Carroll in the finale of SUNSET BLVD.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le5ow-25tHQ

[beaemma]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 2:35pm

I saw her in Toronto after having seen Glenn Close in Los Angeles and New York. I found Carroll wooden. Watching the video of her in the final scene surprised me, as I don't remember her being that effective in that scene. Perhaps she had some nights when she was off her game and I caught one of those.

[chernjam]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 2:46pm

I only had her recording (and saw the same you tube clips people have mentioned) and found her -- I guess the word would be - odd.  Which was a shame because the recording at the time had some of the best orchestrations and started off so great... but by the time you got to "Surrender" and "With One Look" I was disinterested in her.  I really couldn't explain why - and perhaps others might be able to flesh this out for me... but she just had these weird inflections and seemed to be hitting different parts of the songs awkwardly to me.

As for the rumors about her coming to NY - the theatre gossips at the time (Ward Moorehouse - anyone remember him from the NY Post and Michael Riedel; as well as Ken Mandelbaum from Theatre Week) spread so many rumors (or perhaps even made them up) from the first Sydmonton Workshop - it's hard to know what was seriously being discussed or not.  It surprised me that some of the other Normas like Carroll or even Rita Moreno who played London for a few weeks when Betty Buckley had an appendix removed - didn't make limited runs here in NY.  Definitely would've kept interest at a high - even if they weren't phenomenal, legendary performances...

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 3:23pm

I saw Carroll in Toronto. I liked her. She was the most glamorous Norma imo. 

Others I saw - Patti, Glenn, Karen, Susan Dawn, Betty, Elaine (my fav, please no nasty comments), Linda, Maureen, Petula, Helen (Germany)

[cliffordbradshaw2]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 4:45pm

<<Rita Moreno who played London for a few weeks when Betty Buckley had an appendix removed>>

It was actually Elaine Paige who went in when Buckley had her appendectomy.  Moreno played the role in London for a couple of weeks during Petula Clark's vacation.

<<I also recall rumors over the years that she was promised by ALW to replace Glenn Close on B'way at the end of her run in the summer of 1995. His not keeping his promise led to a frosty relationship with him during her run in Canada. Then I read ALW had no intention of having Carroll on B'way; he always wanted her for Canada>>

I don't believe that Diahann Carroll was ever mentioned to replace Glenn on Broadway.  She was hired by Garth Drabinsky to do "Sunset" in Toronto and Vancouver for two years.  Carroll always credited Drabinsky for her non-traditional casting as Norma.  I do believe, however, that had the show been hugely successful on Broadway and continued to run after Paige, Broadway would have eventually seen Clark and Carroll. 

Updated On: 7/22/17 at 04:45 PM

[tomwsjr]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 5:28pm

Can you share your thoughts on Maureen Moore's performance as Norma?  

[castlestreet]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 8:44pm

I can shed some light on this-I live in Upstate NY and Sunset playing Toronto was a really big deal here

 

Drabinsky saw how well Buckley was received in London after the LA changes were put in and tried to sign her first.  When RUG caught wind of this it was a fast signing to get her to replace Close once her run in NYC was complete.  Drabinsky knew the show relied heavily on getting press attention and after losing Buckley thought this could be easily achieved by some out-of-the box casting of a somewhat legend in the entertainment world, and, voila-enter Ms. Carroll!  

 

She was given high high praise for her portrayal by most of the legitimate press, but grew vary of the show over the way she felt ALW "dismissed" the entire Canadian production.  There were disagreements over her vocal range (sound familiar?) and if you listen to the Original Canadian Cast you'll see in the end, she got her way.  I prefer to think of her as the "husky voiced, regal Norma Desmond".

 

They promoted the hell out of that production here in NY, and she even did a Cast Album signing tour that even reached Rochester in the summer of 96'.

 

I was delighted when Spiderwoman posted that video of her in the Final Scene, as video footage of that production is very hard to come by and brings back exciting memories of the last glory days of huge Broadway productions playing sit down engagements just a few hours away.  The production itself was a total loss for Livent, as we now know was most of what they did outside of the Toronto productions of Phantom and Joseph.

 

I pray Spiderwoman, or someone else on YouTube make good on their promise to post more from her run as Norma!

 

 

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 8:45pm

Loved Maureen. Anything in particular you'd like to know? Some friends found her a lil over the top, I thought it worked. 

[David10086]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 10:08pm

chernjam said: "I only had her recording (and saw the same you tube clips people have mentioned) and found her -- I guess the word would be - odd.  Which was a shame because the recording at the time had some of the best orchestrations and started off so great... but by the time you got to "Surrender" and "With One Look" I was disinterested in her.  I really couldn't explain why - and perhaps others might be able to flesh this out for me... but she just had these weird inflections and seemed to be hitting different parts of the songs awkwardly to me.

As for the rumors about her coming to NY - the theatre gossips at the time (Ward Moorehouse - anyone remember him from the NY Post and Michael Riedel; as well as Ken Mandelbaum from Theatre Week) spread so many rumors (or perhaps even made them up) from the first Sydmonton Workshop - it's hard to know what was seriously being discussed or not.  It surprised me that some of the other Normas like Carroll or even Rita Moreno who played London for a few weeks when Betty Buckley had an appendix removed - didn't make limited runs here in NY.  Definitely would've kept interest at a high - even if they weren't phenomenal, legendary performances..."

 

Thank you all for shedding some light on this. Chenjam, glad it's not me who finds her vocals 'odd' as you wisely say. The only song I do like from her (more than the other "Normas" is 'The Lady's Paying'.  - love the way she sings "I'll take two of these and four of those..." as she seems to really be enjoying the shopping spree. Aside from that, she does have strange inflections. I wonder if that's because she had difficulty with the score? Whatever the reason, she seems distant from the other cast members (and Rex Smith sounds like he's in great vocals for this recording). 

If Carroll made it to Broadway, I probably would have seen it with her in it, and it may have been a wonderful theater experience. Listening to the cast recording - ehhh. 

[chernjam]

Posted: 7/22/17 at 11:24pm

David10086 said: "chernjam said: "I only had her recording (and saw the same you tube clips people have mentioned) and found her -- I guess the word would be - odd.  Which was a shame because the recording at the time had some of the best orchestrations and started off so great... but by the time you got to "Surrender" and "With One Look" I was disinterested in her.  I really couldn't explain why - and perhaps others might be able to flesh this out for me... but she just had these weird inflections and seemed to be hitting different parts of the songs awkwardly to me.

As for the rumors about her coming to NY - the theatre gossips at the time (Ward Moorehouse - anyone remember him from the NY Post and Michael Riedel; as well as Ken Mandelbaum from Theatre Week) spread so many rumors (or perhaps even made them up) from the first Sydmonton Workshop - it's hard to know what was seriously being discussed or not.  It surprised me that some of the other Normas like Carroll or even Rita Moreno who played London for a few weeks when Betty Buckley had an appendix removed - didn't make limited runs here in NY.  Definitely would've kept interest at a high - even if they weren't phenomenal, legendary performances..."

 

Thank you all for shedding some light on this. Chenjam, glad it's not me who finds her vocals 'odd' as you wisely say. The only song I do like from her (more than the other "Normas" is 'The Lady's Paying'.  - love the way she sings "I'll take two of these and four of those..." as she seems to really be enjoying the shopping spree. Aside from that, she does have strange inflections. I wonder if that's because she had difficulty with the score? Whatever the reason, she seems distant from the other cast members (and Rex Smith sounds like he's in great vocals for this recording). 

If Carroll made it to Broadway, I probably would have seen it with her in it, and it may have been a wonderful theater experience. Listening to the cast recording - ehhh. 

 

"

LOL'd at your Ladys Paying comment... you're spot on - had forgotten about that till I read it.  Glad I'm not the only one who found her voice odd.  I remember being excited to get the recording (which at the time had to be a special order as it was being sold only in Canada.... Ahhh - what did we do before Amazon?  Pay crazy fees for "Import" Cd's) - only to quickly become disappointed.

Of all the Sunset Productions though, the one that saddens me the most that they didn't record was the Australian cast with Hugh Jackman and Debra Byrne.  Byrne's voice seemed the perfect fit of all the different Normas and I bet RUG is sad they didn't get Jackman recorded then - as his career really took off after Sunset

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 7/23/17 at 12:48am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDGAbRXIhs

making of sunset Australia 

[David10086]

Posted: 7/23/17 at 9:15pm

Thank You so much for posting this link! The Australian cast looked fantastic. Wish I was able to see that. 

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 7/23/17 at 11:20pm

Welcome. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 8:54am

BrodyFosse123 said: "For your viewing pleasure, here's Ms. Carroll in the finale of SUNSET BLVD.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le5ow-25tHQ"

Whoever did her makeup should be drawn and quartered.

[David10086]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 9:12am

LOL! She does look more like a ghost in this scene than a person! 

[wiggum2]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 9:41am

JBradshaw said: "https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDGAbRXIhs

making of sunset Australia 

 

"

God Hugh is young!!!

[Valentina3]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 10:14am

Lot666 said: "BrodyFosse123 said: "For your viewing pleasure, here's Ms. Carroll in the finale of SUNSET BLVD.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le5ow-25tHQ"

Whoever did her makeup should be drawn and quartered."

Yeah that makeup is really... as reddit would say, homophobic. And that Joe (Rex Smith?) really is fantastic.

 

[castlestreet]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 1:36pm

I remember reading somewhere that Rex Smith was supposed to take on the role of Joe when Alan Campbell left with Glenn for Broadway, so he would have been Faye's Joe - but alas...that capricious character assassin Webber made that impossible!

[David10086]

Posted: 7/27/17 at 5:02pm

I also read that Carroll and Smith intensely disliked each other - and at some performances, it really showed in their acting with each other. It must be tough starring with someone you truly dislike night after night, for a year or so. 

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 7/27/17 at 5:51pm

I saw Carroll twice and I liked her alot. She was regal and cold and I liked her odd vocals-they added to the eccentricity. She also made odd faces when she sang. I also found this intriguing. She was the most beautiful Norma, IMO. Her final scene was electrifying. One night I saw it, she ran onto the staircase accidentally holding the gun in her hand still and the actors had to improvise backing up from her. She emit a guttural sound and flung the gun. It was thrilling. She was definitely in the zone for the finale.

Normas are like pizza to me. Even when its not great, I still like it. I'm always interested in the choices an actress makes. Smith was out of this world as was Anita Louise Combe as Betty. She got replaced pretty early into the run. I have a window card and programs for this production. The program is stunning.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 7/27/17 at 6:01pm

Also, don't judge her make-up based on a grainy VHS. She was exquisite. She was heavily powdered during the show, but beautifully, as many aging actresses do so they are softened under the lights. During the finale, she was kabuki-style and it was chilling. Also, there was the underlying commentary on race which I found added an interesting subtext.

Also, at the time, she was the oldest woman to play Norma.

[castlestreet]

Posted: 7/27/17 at 9:36pm

All of the Livent shows had great merchandise-I still have that beautiful program and the TY Beanie Baby "Nuts" the squirrel that was sold at the theater.

[Lot666]

Posted: 7/28/17 at 8:45am

Bettyboy72 said: "Normas are like pizza to me. Even when its not great, I still like it."

This should be a meme!