Theater turnover
Theater turnover
#1Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 3:11pm
Does anyone have a sense of how much time a theater needs to turnover from one show to the next? I figure it varies based on musicals vs plays and how complex the technical elements are, but is a two week load out, 4 week load in a good place to start as far as assumptions go? Just thinking based on what I remember seeing walking around times square (I'm using load in/load out to mean the entire time it takes to get a theater ready, not just the amount of time the physical trucks are outside moving materials)
Willie4316
Leading Actor Joined: 9/12/16
#2Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 3:15pm
As you said it depends on if it is a play/musical and the complexity of the set and lighting, but I would imagine a good rule of thumb is a minimum of 2-3 weeks. Including the box office opening, setting up the marquee, and technical elements.
neonlightsxo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/08
#3Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 3:18pm
A few years back, the Patrick Stewart/Ian McKellen plays in rep at the Cort (closed March 30 2014) turned over to Cripple of Inishmaan in less than a month (first preview April 12). That's the fastest I can remember.
theatreguy
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/31/03
#4Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 5:08pm
And a few years before that, also at the Cort, A View from the Bridge closed on April 4 and Fences started previews on April 14.
#6Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 5:26pm
What's the longest a theater has sat dark? Specifically more recent examples. I know it was common for theaters to be vacant for long periods of time before the 90's.
In our millions, in our billions, we are most powerful when we stand together. TW4C unwaveringly joins the worldwide masses, for we know our liberation is inseparably bound.
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Smaxie
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/26/05
#7Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 5:57pm
The Ambassador was empty for five years, from the closing of The Circle in 1990, to the opening of Buttons on Broadway in 1995. It wasn't closed or abandoned. No one wanted it.
The Nederlander was empty for around 3 years between a short run of a Jackson Browne concert in 1993 and the opening of Rent in 1996.
Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then stop.
@z5
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/30/15
#8Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 6:20pm
Nederlander has been very empty for the last 2 years or so as well, since shows it got barely stayed opened.
Music Box (prior to King Charles) was also closed for a fairly significant amount of time.
Same with Belasco between Blackbird and Glass Menagerie, about 8 months? could have fit another play in there.
#9Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 6:52pm
Why do theatres on Broadway stay dark for so long?
in London, a show moves in swiftly once a show is dark, they pull something in from tour or the fringe, theatre is never dark here.
Look at Lincoln Centre, that was dark nearly a year until Oslo comes in for a limited run.
#10Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 7:34pm
Union rules for each country are different. I'm guessing tech guys here have more breaks.
In our millions, in our billions, we are most powerful when we stand together. TW4C unwaveringly joins the worldwide masses, for we know our liberation is inseparably bound.
Signed,
Theater Workers for a Ceasefire
https://theaterworkersforaceasefire.com/statement
AEA AGMA SM
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/13/09
#11Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 7:58pm
The long periods of a theatre sitting dark between shows is not due to union rules, but just the fact that producing on Broadway is far more expensive than it is producing in London. So even though we do occasionally see a show come together super fast to nab an unexpected vacancy it is not the norm.
trpguyy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/25/05
#12Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 8:22pm
Call_me_jorge said: "Union rules for each country are different. I'm guessing tech guys here have more breaks. "
Stagehands, and they don't.
#13Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 10:30pm
I don't think you're going to find a "rule of thumb" here. It depends on the set, lights, etc. It depends on how much time they have. It depends on how many stagehands the producer is willing to hire, etc.
But we should keep in mind that national tours and professional stock houses regularly put in sets and lights as complicated as those on Broadway--and they do so in 24 to 48 hours. Of course, they rehearse taking out and putting in, and even if the sets look the same as those on Broadway, they may be much lighter, built only to last six months or so rather than the years a Broadway show may run.
One fact I can give you: when I worked in Miami Beach, it took 40 stagehands five full days to erect the set for A CHORUS LINE because Michael Bennett insisted that the "permanent" Broadway set be used at every site. (As most will recall, ACL only has 3 looks: black, mirror, gold finale, each created by rotating trapezoids upstage. But there were also hard legs rather than the traditional curtains.)
At the same theater, we regularly put in much more complicated looking sets in a fraction of the time.
The exception to all of the above, as others have noted, are instances where the house is essentially rebuilt for the show: COMET, CANDIDE '74, CATS, etc. But these are sui generis and tell us nothing about the "average" take in.
ETA I should have also pointed out that since the vast majority of Broadway shows are new productions, set may go up and then come down again because the director or producer decides they are wrong and must be replaced. This of course adds to the take in time.
BroadwayRox3588
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/5/16
#14Theater turnover
Posted: 2/17/17 at 11:34pm
Longacre was dark for quite awhile between Allegiance and Bronx Tale
Wilmingtom
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/11
#15Theater turnover
Posted: 2/18/17 at 2:45am
The Hudson ceased operating as a legit theater in 1968 and just reopened this week. A 49-year dry spell.
bowtie7
Stand-by Joined: 7/27/11
#16Theater turnover
Posted: 2/18/17 at 5:14pm
There are two major factors in how much changeover time is needed. First is the complexity of the show itself (which can vary from a simple single set play all the way to a production that might require making structural changes to the building). The second factor is how much overtime a producer is willing to spend to get into the theatre faster. If time allows, a production always wants to schedule the load-in to avoid overtime but on occasion when a production comes together with a star having limited availability, the producer may be willing to pay to have the production be able to open sooner (or possibly to make an awards eligibility date)
#17Theater turnover
Posted: 2/18/17 at 10:29pm
^^^ Well said. My point above about the long take-in for A CHORUS LINE is that appearances may be deceiving. Our season that ended with ACL began with the pre-Broadway tour of Zero Mostel's 1977 revival of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, a much more complicated looking set.
Yet the plane delivering the sets was delayed and we loaded in the Act II pieces while opening night of Act I was already in progress. (Fortunately, we had a very deep stage.) And we were working with what would become the "Broadway" set for the revival.
#18Theater turnover
Posted: 2/18/17 at 11:12pm
With all due respect, doing something on Broadway and doing it elsewhere is apples and oranges. For more reasons than I can count.
Islander_fan
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#19Theater turnover
Posted: 2/19/17 at 12:19pm
HogansHero
As it was shown by people who have done load in an load outs on tour, clearly what you're saying is not with merit and doesn't hold water at all.
#21Theater turnover
Posted: 2/19/17 at 2:15pm
PThespian said: "Oh come on Hogan.
List a few of them from your days of doing load ins.
This--multiplied by thousands.
trpguyy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/25/05
#22Theater turnover
Posted: 2/19/17 at 4:54pm
HogansHero said: "With all due respect, doing something on Broadway and doing it elsewhere is apples and oranges. For more reasons than I can count."
This is absolutely true. The politics and logistics of Broadway compared to a tour are completely different.
trpguyy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/25/05
#23Theater turnover
Posted: 2/19/17 at 4:57pm
Islander_fan said: "HogansHero
As it was shown by people who have done load in an load outs on tour, clearly what you're saying is not with merit and doesn't hold water at all. "
Citation please?
Islander_fan
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#24Theater turnover
Posted: 2/19/17 at 5:25pm
trpguyy said: "Islander_fan said: "HogansHero
As it was shown by people who have done load in an load outs on tour, clearly what you're saying is not with merit and doesn't hold water at all. "
Citation please?
other posters in this thread gave examples of personal experience with the process.
"
#25Theater turnover
Posted: 2/19/17 at 5:31pm
Some of the theaters in New York that have sat empty for six months or longer have done so because of renovation work inside. Others have sat empty for periods of time because producers have a "hold "on the space but perhaps are still raising money for the production they are bringing in. Depending on the deal with the theater owner, they still may be paying rent while the theater is empty. And sometimes it's just a matter of timing. If say "In Transit" closed next week at Circle in the Square, you would unlikely see anything open there much before the summer because it's too late in the season to open another production by the Tony deadline.
But regardless of whether there is a tenant or not, almost every theater has a list of productions waiting in the wings trying to get in. The days of a theater sitting empty for five years because nobody wants it are long gone.
“I knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then.”
#26Theater turnover
Posted: 2/19/17 at 7:52pm
I have no idea what some of you think you are saying because it is nonsense. One does not have to have physically loaded in a Broadway show (I promise I have never loaded in so much as a paper clip) to be well aware of the challenging logistics vis-a-vis most tours. Forgetting contracts and the like, most Broadway theatres are loaded in manually off relatively small trucks, from the street, in tightly permitted traffic lanes and across public sidewalks, often into the lobbies or seating areas of the house, and with no storage space or staging areas once inside.Without even getting into any of the more nuanced differences, these major (and time-consuming) differences are things that even a casual observer would be aware of if they applied their brain to the question. That, of course, seems to be a lot to ask for around here some times.
trpguyy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/25/05
#28Theater turnover
Posted: 2/19/17 at 8:18pm
Miss Saigon, which was built to tour and move in 12 hours, just took us over three weeks to load in.
FOH cable pulls in the Neil Simon take 6 stagehands approximately 4 hours, whereas virtually any road house would take 20-25 minutes.
Generaly speaking, tours are "all about the loadout." Everything is temporary. Broadway is the exact opposite. Everything is an installation. It takes a lot of time. And all of that is separate from the very different politics.
EDIT: while I wasn't personally involved with this one, we can use the Motown return engagement as another exhibit. It was a compete tour package that had been moving across the county for years. A well-oiled machine by the time it toured into the Nederlander, and that was still a week+ loadin.
