Best Score eligibility

[tazber]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 7:32am

Since Newsies, Once, and Ghost all have previously released material how will these scores be counted?

Particularly Newsies and Once which have several songs incorporated from their source movies.

And what do you guys think will be nominated in general?

I would love for Menken to win a Tony this year.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 8:14am

NEWSIES will be eligible, is there anything new in ONCE?

[theatreguy]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 1:16pm

Newsies should have enough new material to be eligible. And isn't Ghost all-new except for Unchained Melody?

The eligible scores this year:

Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark
Bonnie and Clyde
Lysistrata Jones
Newsies
Ghost
Leap of Faith

I'm thinking Menken will easily score 2 nominations and will very likely win. Probably for Newsies, but Leap of Faith is still kind of a wild card until performances start.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 1:28pm

Thanks guys.

Also, wasn't there something where only the new songs for Beauty and the Beast were eligible? Did they change the rules or am I imagining that altogether?

[leefowler]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 1:32pm

I'd like to mention this is a good year for the composer Alex North...He wrote the music for Death Of A Salesman, and also has Unchained Melody in Ghost!

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 1:38pm

taz - Tommy caused some controversy over its win and thus, scores with pre-existing material could only receive nominations based on the new material. The rule was changed again after State Fair's nomination in 1996 for only four songs. At least 50% of the score has to be new in order to be eligible.

Updated On: 3/19/12 at 01:38 PM

[theatreguy]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 1:40pm

That's correct, tazber. The rule has always been that only new songs will be considered eligible for the award, but from 1997 on, those new songs have to make up at least 50% of the score. That was in reaction to the 1996 awards when Rodgers and Hammerstein were nominated for State Fair on the basis of just 4 songs that hadn't been heard on Broadway before.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 1:40pm

Thanks Matt and theatreguy! I had been wondering about that for days.

Based on theatreguy's list of scores it looks like Newsies is the front runner.

Updated On: 3/19/12 at 01:40 PM

[SondheimFan5]

Posted: 3/19/12 at 2:19pm

Menken is certainly the frontrunner. I fear, however, that votes might be split if Menken is nominated twice in the same category, though I think Newsies is a far better score.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 3:03am

I have not heard any of Menken's new work this year... Are his new songs for Newsies better than the entire score of Leap of Faith? Also, has a partially original score ever won (after the rule change)? No, right?

[tazber]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 6:38am

The Producers won and that had Springtime for Hitler.

[theatreguy]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 10:35am

The Producers just had that and Prisoners of Love from the movie. All the other Best Score winners since Tommy in 1993 have been completely new. If Newsies wins, it will be the first since the rule change to have a full 50% of its score ineligible for the award. Updated On: 3/20/12 at 10:35 AM

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 10:44am

Even if people are told only the new songs in Newsies are eligible will they really be able to block out the old songs and solely vote for the new material? (Especially when the old material from the movie is the best stuff.)

Since Once is ineligible it does seem that Menken has an easy road to the Tony. Let's see which one he wins it for.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 10:46am

There apparently is (according to word on ATC) some speculation that the score for ONCE might actually be deemed eligible. We'll see what happens during the Tony eligibility meeting.

[newintown]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:13am

There's always speculation like that - many people said the same thing about American Idiot, and see how that turned out.

The score to Once is a lovely one, but in spite of that, one sort of wishes the nominating committee would just set some rule and follow it.

Updated On: 3/20/12 at 11:13 AM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:20am

True, newintown, though apparently (based purely on the song list in the Playbill) ONCE arguably has added enough 'new' songs to possibly be eligible - the caveat being that a lot of this new material is brief and in a couple of instances adapted from traditional folk songs. So this really is an instance in which the committee will have to take a closer look before ruling.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:22am

Comparing the sdtk with obcr for Once it looks like there are 6 new songs added and 5 that were not kept from the movie.

SDTK:
Falling Slowly
If You Want Me
Broken Hearted Hoover Fixer Sucker Guy
When Your Mind's Made Up
Lies
Gold
The Hill
Fallen from the Sky
Leave
Trying to Pull Myself Away
All the Way Down
Once
Say It to Me Now

OBCR:
The North Strand
Leave
Falling Slowly
The Moon
Ej Pada Pada Rosicka
If You Want Me
Broken Hearted Hoover Fixer Sucker Guy
Say It To Me Now
Abandoned In Bandon
Gold
Sleeping
When Your Mind's Made Up
The Hill
It Cannot Be About That
Gold (A Cappella)
Falling Slowly (Reprise)

[bookofmel]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 6:00pm

When do we find out what is eligible? Clearly before nominations are announced, but is there a set date?

This is certainly going to be an exciting year. I would love to see Menken finally win!

[bdn223]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 3:01pm

According to interviews there are only 2 new songs written for Once, while newsies like Little Mermaid before it may not have a ton of new material, in essence Little Mermaid had none, it was just they added words to underscore from the film, for example One Step Closer and Her Voice's melodies are both taken directly from the scene on the boat before the storm. Also the lyrics have been heavily reworked as well, so Newsies would be deemed eligible, while Once, which did as little as possible to keep the song sound the way they initially did in the film, will likely not be eligible

[tazber]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 4:26pm

I didn't realize that about Mermaid. Interesting.

Still, Menken wrote several new up-tempos (Human Stuff, Good Times Back, Positoovity, She's In Love, Beyond My Wildest Dreams) so it "felt" new somehow.

ETA: just went back and listened to One Step Closer and I totally hear it now. Amazing how I never noticed that before with the lyrics.

Updated On: 3/21/12 at 04:26 PM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 6:56pm

Wasn't the issue with Tommy, though, that it was a musical theater work that had never appeared on Broadway before? Similar to the issue of whether a well known previously produced (other than recently out of town or off-Broadway) play or musical making its Broadway debut - Wit, this year, for instance - should be considered a revival rather than a work eligible for best play or best musical?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 7:39pm

Tommy was produced on stage theatrically by the Seattle Opera in 1971 with Bette Midler as the Acid Queen and Mrs. Walker. But it wasn't until it won a Tony that attention was drawn so much to score eligibility for pre-existing material new to Broadway in a book musical. There was much debate over the original theatrical intent of the music prior to Broadway which became the argument for American Idiot.

Gigi was another controversial winner of Original Score. While it did introduce 5 new songs (I Never Want to Go Home Again went unrecorded...was it cut?), the score was still a bit slight and top-heavy with two-thirds of the material jammed into the first act. And the recycled material had already won Oscars for Score and Song. Nevertheless, it beat out Raisin and Seesaw that season with Raisin winning Best Musical and Candide winning Best Book. A very bizarre Tony season.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 3/22/12 at 1:54am

Wow, Candide won Best Book? The most problematic thing about it. (I've read the original book.) Then again, I guess slim pickings.

I thought some of the songs added in Once were Swell Season songs... Am I wrong? That would make sense that only two are original and six total were added to the film score.

"Falling Slowly" was almost deemed ineligible for the Oscar (it was released on his/their album before the film was out). I doubt Once will be eligible for this award.

[MadonnaMusical]

Posted: 3/22/12 at 3:17am

4 of the new songs were previously recorded and released SWELL SEASON songs, and one of them is a translation of a Marketa Irglova song....

the score should be ineligible.

Also, ONCE is VERY different from "American Idiot," and "Tommy," because both of those shows came from concept albums/rock operas that were written with a stage story in mind. ONCE, on the other hand was adapted into a movie AFTER The Swell Season recorded their first album. It's a question of what came first the chicken or the egg...

FALLING SLOWLY ended up being eligible for the Oscar, and it actually WON, but it lost the Grammy award....... they are really riding this song as far as they can... almost to EGOT land, lol.

Updated On: 3/22/12 at 03:17 AM

[MadonnaMusical]

Posted: 3/22/12 at 3:22am

It has to be Alan Menken's year to win!!! It just has to... I hope the vote isn't split... he is sure doing a lot of publicity which he never really has done before. I'm glad he's finally getting some name recognition in spite of Disney's name always being above his musical's title.