Amazing live...not so on recordings?

[fingerlakessinger]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 12:43pm

Okay so this may seem random.
However recently I attended a concert where some college students sang show tunes. There was one girl who was AH-MAZING. She sang the hell out of "Don't Rain on my Parade" and some others. My friend was recording and I could not wait to get back home to listen to it again. However once we did, we found that the recording (which was on a very hq device) didn't sound nearly as impressive as it was live. So I was wondering if you guys think that it's possible that some voices just do not record that well. Or if it's some mental trick or something. Cuz live she was brilliant and others agreed. And this made me start to think of how maybe I have judged some Broadway actors strictly on recordings instead of actually listening to them live.

[Rabekriegerin]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 1:00pm

Something of both, I think. (Wahoo, give me the award for cop-out answer!)

There's no denying the power and impact of a live performance, even over a very good, or dare I say "perfect", recording of that selfsame performance. Why that is, I don't know. Some magnificent trick of the human psyche. The energy and the reality of it.

I do know I've had that happen to me before. You experience a performing art live, and it glitters in your memory, and you're super excited to view the recording... and when you do, it comes across as terribly flat and a pale shadow of the lived experience. It could be in part that the excitement of 'being there' tunes out the flaws and enhances the spectacle? So we are more likely miss intonation problems, or other little glitches.

But your other point is true as well. Recordings can do a marvelous job of capturing a voice, but it will always be an approximation. (I once had a man with an accoustics degree explain to me exactly why that is, and have since forgotten. Joy.) There is no question, though, that certain voices and certain recording devices just simply do NOT get along. And I don't mean just a cheap mic is being used.

I really noticed this the most when listening to various Drew Sarich recordings (newsflash: fan here). There are a few official recordings of his voice, professionally done, that do a terrible job of actually capturing what he sounds like. For example, a release from Donauinselfest 2003 (Vienna). If I hadn't seen alternate audio and video from the event and known he sang those songs, I almost wouldn't be able to recognize that as his voice. Tinny, flattened, and plain bizarre to listen to, "knowing" what he sounds like. Entire colorations were somehow just not picked up by the recording equipment. It's not that way across the board in all recordigns, of course; there are others that do a magnificent job of an accurate capture.

What I've taken out of the whole experience is... (1) all else being equal, live is always better, and (2) try 3 or 4 recordings, from 3 or 4 events or productions, before making a vocal judgment. I have been depressed by my share of "I saw this live, and s/he was magnificent!" only to acquire the CD and be disappointed. I've also gone the other way, though, and been blown out of the water. So... you take the good with the bad?

Updated On: 11/28/11 at 01:00 PM

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 1:05pm

In addition to Rabe's more educated answer, I think some stars have so much stage presence that we simply don't notice vocal irregularities.

Carol Channing and Angela Lansbury are two who have to be recorded very carefully. Mary Martin and Gertrude Lawrence rather famously sang flat, but nobody seemed to mind when hearing them live. Ditto Robert Preston and Robert Morse. Etc. and so forth.

[fingerlakessinger]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 1:36pm

Thank you both for your fantastic responses. I always knew that live is better but it struck me as odd that a recording could do that hha

[ComingUpRoses2]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 1:51pm

Look at the 1989 Tyne Daly recording of Gypsy. People who saw her live hardly even noticed any vocal deficiencies, since her performance was so damn good. Listening to the recording, however, can be a cringe worthy experience. Of course, she was sick when she recorded it and I can vouch for her (from the clips I've seen) and say that she didn't really sound that bad when performing live.

Actually, a lot of the golden age Broadway stars didn't have technically perfect voices. They had star power and magnetism, something that is missing from lots of performers today.

[AC126748]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 3:13pm

Having seen Daly live (one of the first shows I ever saw, and one of which I have almost perfect recall) and owning a near perfect quality live recording, I can comment that, sick or not, her performance on the cast recording of Gypsy ACCURATELY reflects the vocal performance she gave in the theatre. It's not a pretty or even pleasant voice, but as you say, her stage presence goes a long way.

One performer who I don't think records as well as she performs live is Julia Murney. I love her voice, find her thrilling live, and often think she sounds pinched and flat when recorded.

[philly03]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 3:29pm

Who ever produced the Broadway cast recording for WONDERLAND did a terrible job - both Kate Shindle and Darren Ritchie sound horrendous on their tracks. Had the show been more successful, a live recording would've been much better.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 9:37pm

For me, my most memorable live/recorded contrast was the song Goodbye from Catch Me If You Can. I got interested in CMIYC in the first place because of Aaron Tveit's vocal performances on the N2N OBCR, which i felt were technically beautiful and also full of emotion, capturing many moods from quietly dark and ominous (aftershocks, there's a world) to powerful (i'm alive) to sweet and vulnerable (i am the one reprise), and even making me tear up during the latter. So after seeing the CMIYC promotions online with snippets of some of the songs, even though the lyrics and advertising didn't seem that interesting to me, i decided to give it a chance anyway because of Mr. Tveit's vocals on N2N.

I first listened to the OBCR of CMIYC before seeing the show live, and thought that Goodbye sounded beautifully sung, both technically and emotionally. Then i saw the show live and my head thoroughly exploded during the performance of that song. The technical perfection in terms of pitch and power was coupled with a performance packed with emotion to the point of bursting with it, in a very gradual and subtle build-up that brought the audience right along with it.

I have seen more than 150 different musicals and over 200 performances of them over the past 30 years, and have never before or since seen a song performed that powerfully, even including various renditions of Rose's Turn and Soliloquy. And it is nowhere near my favourite song in terms of lyrics or music - there are hundreds of songs that I like better in terms of the lyrics. There are also dozens of shows that I like better. The book and score are not my favourites in terms of the writing, though I have certainly seen far worse as well. It's fairly middle-of-the-pack among the shows that I have seen.

The whole audience gave Aaron a spontaneous standing ovation right then after that song, with another song and scene still remaining in the show. I had never seen (participated in) a mid-show standing ovation before in over 200 performances of musicals. It is a memory that will stay with me for a very long time and I count myself as extremely lucky to have had that experience once in my life. Listening to the OBCR now, although it is extremely well-sung, does not quite capture the chills and amazement and explosion of emotion that occurred during that performance.

Hearing Vicki Noon singing Defying Gravity in the SF production of Wicked was also an amazing emotional, eargasmic experience, though I don't have a recording of her performance to compare to the live version. It was my first time seeing the show and her flawless vocals and emotion absolutely blew me away.





Updated On: 11/28/11 at 09:37 PM

[hyperbole_and_a_half]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 10:28pm

One of my favorite little bits of Broadway gossip involves one of our recent leading ladies (who is a bit on the eccentric side) totally mouthing a money note without producing any sound, but selling the situation so well that certain people in the audience (with pretty impeccable musical chops) didn't notice that she suddenly dropped her vocal. They had to be referred to an "audience capture" that proved the actress had given them the silent treatment! It probably helped that the note wasn't super-long and that the orchestrations doubled her vocal line and the pit's amplification was off the charts at that moment. After the show closed, the actress admitted to her shenanigans, and said she avoided disciplinary because the SM thought her mic cut out.

She is also one of those "amazing live; sometimes amazing on recordings" singers, and that's one of my favorite go-to inspirational stories if I or someone I know wake up in bad voice :)

[broadwaybabytn]

Posted: 11/28/11 at 10:36pm

Is that the Orfeh Vulcan Mind Trick story?

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/29/11 at 7:34am

I just mentioned this in another thread. When I first heard the London cast recording of Phantom of the Opera, I wasn't all that impressed with Michael Crawford. Let's face it--he doesn't have the best voice. It was eerie, which seemed appropriate for the role, and he certainly sang it with passion. But his voice in general was a little thin and sometimes wobbly.

Then I saw him live in the show ... twice.

There has never been anyone to touch his Phantom performance live. And it didn't translate well at all on TV clips, because it had to do with the way he moved on stage. Almost in slow-motion as if he were floating. It was wonderfully eccentric. And his whole physicality was fluid and emotional. No other actor I've seen has been able to do that as well in a theatre. Most can sing it well enough but come off stiff or just plain uninteresting physically.

[Overkill]

Posted: 11/29/11 at 8:16am

^^ I have a friend who just HATES Michael Crawford and I argue with him about this all the time. Michael is one of those performers who you just have to see live to understand why he's so great. Listening to him can be grueling at times, he doesn't have the prettiest voice, but he is just an amazing entertainer in every sense of the word. I wish he would come back to Broadway.

I think the same can be said of Mandy Patinkin at times. There are times on record he sounds just awful and pretentious. Then in person, he can blow you away.

[slmlbl]

Posted: 11/29/11 at 12:08pm

I really enjoy 'Curtains' live but never listen to the recordig. I find you need the situation to enjoy it. But that's a whole other branch of this tree.

[Taryn]

Posted: 11/29/11 at 1:22pm

I always thought Sherie Rene Scott sounded a bit shrill in her top notes on recordings until I finally saw her live in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. The warmth of her voice live was a world's difference.

[voteforsaraberry]

Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:14pm

Philly03 - You make such a good point about Wonderland. Kate Shindle is such a powerhouse live, and that recording did nothing for her.

[TheLadyoftheWood]

Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:40pm

I second the things said about both Kate Shindle and Sherie Rene Scott. I love them both for their powerhouse vocals and amazing range. On recordings they sound very tin-like at times, but live they are amazing. I saw Scott in TLM and she said that she was sick on the day we visited but she still gave 150% to the audience. I wish I could give that great of a performance when I was under the weather. Although I am told that when I perform I am pretty good (unbeknownst to them I am often sick the first few shows of a run).

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 11/29/11 at 2:49pm

I HATED Michael Crawford in the films of FORUM and DOLLY. I thought he was mannered, neurotic and a lousy singer.

But best12bars is right (as usual)! Because a friend of mine played Raul in L.A., I saw Crawford numerous times (and other Phantoms as well, including David Gaines and Robert Guillaume).

Crawford was transcendent! And he was even better when my friend, Michael Piontek, took over as Raul. The two Michaels are the same height, so they seemed well matched during the chase and fight scenes. (The previous Raul sang like an angel, but was half Crawford's size. Not much suspenses as to how that would turn out.)

[elphaba.scares.me]

Posted: 12/2/11 at 10:50pm

It also has to do with how the singer is recorded. High belting is harder to capture because it's not as naturally "warm" and needs equalization.

Sherie Rene sounded amazing live in The Last Five Years, but on the rexording, sounded tinny. It's like they set everything up for Norbert's much darker voice, and then didn't adjust them for her.

But she sounded amazing on Aida's OBCR, with Elton John's team recording her. The best engineers in the business...or close to it.

Idina Menzel sounded phenomenal on the Wicked album and The Wild Party album, but dreadful on See What I Wanna See.

The Wonderland album is, I think, dreadful. The autotune alone makes it nearly unlistenable. And when you autotune people who have great pitch to begin with, like Darren or Carly or Kate, it's just stupid.

[SondheimFan5]

Posted: 12/3/11 at 12:00am

It also has to do with a second impression. Things may sound better or worse on a 2nd listen.

On the Follies album, I think Elaine Paige and Ron Raines sound much better in the theatre, but Bernadette sounds better on the album.

Everyone says Merman was unreal in person live, but it didn't come across as wonderful on recordings.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 12/3/11 at 12:27am

And beyond that, there are some numbers that simply dont work as a recording because the performance is so necessary to making it all come together — most famously (for me) "Mirror, Mirror". The OCR is muddy as all heck. Not even the Papermill version captures it. In fact, none of the recordings do because they all try to fake the sound of the dancing — or they layer in the taps later on. But whichever it is, the song loses energy and/or focus.