Understudy fetishism?
Understudy fetishism?
#1Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:03pm
I've been reading threads about CATCH ME IF YOU CAN closing here and on other fora and am struck by one recurring statement: That Aaron Tveit, whether he needs to or not, should call out before the end of the run so that Jay Johnson can have a chance to perform. While the discussion here is more rational, on other fan sites I've seen people call Aaron things like "selfish" for playing every performance, not giving Jay a chance to go on, etc. No question that Jay is a talented performer who's on his way to a solid career, but why would Aaron call out if he doesn't have to in order to let him perform? The job of a standby/understudy is to perform only in situations when the performer they are covering cannot; understudies know this when they sign the contract, so why do fans feel like it's their divine right to see a favorite understudy perform?
I remember that similar comments were made during the run of NEXT TO NORMAL. On Jessica Phillips' last day, some of the more "dedicated" (we'll use a polite word) fans of the show expected Marin Mazzie to call out and let her perform. When she didn't, those devotees had some not-very-nice things to say. I'd rather celebrate Mazzie for showing up and doing her job.
I don't mean to be incendiary in this post; I'm just wondering when it became regular practice for devoted fans of certain shows (or of performers who are often cast in standby/understudy roles) to expect/demand that they be given the chance to perform. Of course, great understudy stories are nothing new (see Shirley Maclaine or Judy Kaye), but it seems like modern day fans are taking it to a whole new level. Can anyone elucidate/explain?
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#2Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:08pmActually, I'd never thought about it, but now that you mention it, I think it would be a very generous gesture on his part to do so. Aaron has nothing to lose by doing this, and it would certainly give Jason a nice moment in the proverbial sun. Since the show is closing anyway, what harm is there?
http://docandraider.com
#2Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:09pmThe only input I will give on this one is the fact that when an understudy performs, especially a known or appreciated one, it's kind of like seeing the replacement or a new cast. People just want to see someone else's take on it, since it's been Aaron 24/7. Seeing Jay would bring a freshness to that performance. I for one, do want to see him perform at some point, and if Aaron lost his voice or something for one show, and I was in town, I would go. But I'm not dying for him to be on.
#3Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:11pmSean, it is a very humble gesture and I know many performers who have called out in order to allow their understudies to go on in certain circumstances--like if they have family coming to see the show. I just don't understand where the rationale that this is something the performer HAS to do comes from.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#4Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:17pmNah, no one says he has to... least not me. But I think it would make one hell of a parting gift.
http://docandraider.com
#5Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:18pm
I'm interested in hearing others' input, since the whole thing is kind of baffling to me. To be honest, I always perceive it as another form of pretension among theatre fans; they're so in the know that they're a devoted fan of an understudy and would just DIE to see them perform. It's too mainstream to like the principal actor, so they'll cheer on the understudy and hope to death that they get to go on.
Wasn't there some issue with the actor who played Noah in Caroline, or Change and the mother/parents of his understudy? I seem to remember a story about Harrison Chad never missing a performance and the mother of his understudy thinking this was selfish.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#6Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:19pm
Yes, it's "nice", but it shouldn't be expected. Just like it's nice if a co-worker brings me coffee in the morning -- it's lovely, but they certainly aren't selfish if they only get one for themselves.
The LARGE majority of any audience wants to see the ACTUAL cast. Isn't Aaron's (for example) responsibility to THEM and not the small group of the fangirls that think he's not 'fair'?
I really hate what fans have come to expect.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#7Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:21pm
I remember that, givesmevoice. Wasn't that in relation to some kind of reality show, or something?
I think we should be commending a young actor like Aaron for playing one hell of a role and not missing a single performance, when others take their understudies for granted. And based on a recent performance I attended, Aaron seems to still be finding new layers in the character.
Isn't Aaron's (for example) responsibility to THEM and not the small group of the fangirls that think he's not 'fair'?
Exactly. And he seems to take that very seriously.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
Updated On: 8/11/11 at 12:21 PM
#8Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:21pm
Well, insofar as the audience... if the understudy came in on a Wednesday matinee, I doubt the audience would get that upset at this point. But that's just my take. 
http://docandraider.com
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#9Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:35pm
I doubt anyone would be complaining to the box office...but to see an understudy instead of the 'real thing' just to be nice is unprofessional. Personally, I'm usually perfectly happy to see understudies.
Should I call out sick just so that some nice new substitute can teach my students?
Also...there have been stories about producers frowning on that type of thing. If that's the case, Aaron also has to think about his future.
Lastly, there was a really nice story about the last days of the remaining original cast of Spring Awakening. (I certainly may get some of the details wrong, but I'm sure the gist is correct.) Brian Charles had never gotten to perform his understudy role of Mortiz. At this time, Blake Bashoff and Kyle Riabko were being pulled from performances for tour rehearsals. Gerard Canonico was performing exclusively as Moritz and he 'called out sick' (or maybe took a personal day) to give Brian a chance to perform. I'm sure it was a highlight of his memories of SA. (Of course, his voice was shot as hell by then...but I believe the fans loved him anyway.)
I do not know if this had the blessing or advance knowledge of the producers but it was a very nice gesture. (Especially since it would have cost Canonico his upgrade in pay as well as the use of a sick/personal day.)
Agian, it's nice, but should never be expected.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#10Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:41pmThe only time I'd be pissed to see an understudy is if I'm going to see a show specifically for one performer. If I'd gone to Billy Elliot and found that Emily Skinner was out, I would have exchanged my tickets, because I went back to that show exclusively to see her as Mrs. Wilkinson. Otherwise, I'm totally fine seeing understudies. It's what dramamama is explaining--the expectation that a star will "call out" to give their understudy a shot at the role--that bothers me. An understudy knows when they are hired that their chances of going on are small; they go into it with the expectation that they might never perform the role that they learn and rehearse. I think the coffee analogy is spot-on.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#11Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:42pm
Should I call out sick just so that some nice new substitute can teach my students?
I think that's actually a really apt comparison. I'm sure you're a great teacher, but your students wouldn't mind a substitute every now and then. And I'm sure that substitute would jump at the chance to work and get paid. But it's your job, and your responsibility to show up.
Knock on wood, I've always had good luck with seeing full casts, but I'm always perfectly happy to see an understudy. However, I think the only time I would've been totally thrilled to see an understudy would be if I had seen Lenora Nemetz go on as Rose. But I 1) have the luxury of returning to shows if I really want to see the principal actor and 2) think Lenora Nemetz is a lolfest.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
Updated On: 8/11/11 at 12:42 PM
#12Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 12:50pm
I think the understudy thing really just comes from the need to be "the BEST FAN EVER". It's the equivalent to someone who collects action figures or coins or stamps or whatever- they need to have everything, every possible variation, every mistake in printing or production. "Your collection isn't complete without the rare misprint R2-D2 from 1995..."
"You aren't a real fan if you haven't seen so-and-so go on..."
Although I'm sure the understudy would love to go on, they understand they're not going to get many chances. The person cast in the role has their job to do, as well.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#13Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 1:03pm
I think it all depends on how famous and loved the star is... aaron tviet is getting there with fans... but he's not quite as famous as Daniel Radcliffe. If Daniel called out, half the audience would ask for refunds.... costing the producers a lot of money. That just won't happen with Aaron. BUT you're right, it's his job... there was a time when we applauded actors for not calling out, now we're begging them to. Jordin Sparks missed MANY performances of ITH, and producers lost a lot of money.
The only possible replacement for Daniel would be someone famous, like Darren Chris... if Darren were the understudy.... the audience would go crazy... like when Liza replaced Gwen Verdon.... imagine if Patti Lupone's understudy in Gypsy had been Bernadette, lol.... I wish producers did crazy thing like that more often.
#14Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 1:04pm
Interesting thread, but "fetishism"?
I was hoping for something more salacious. 
....but the world goes 'round
#15Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 1:07pm
Some producers have tried, like bringing in Judy Kaye when Patti temporarily left SWEENEY to do GYPSY at Ravinia, or having John Cullum take over briefly in AUGUST: OSAGE COUNTY (before he began playing the role full-time). Not exactly Liza subbing for Gwen, but it shows an effort when the producers know that someone is going to be out for a significant period of time.
Of course, it's a lot easier to have someone of "stature" come in for one or two weeks than to get them to stand by for a long run.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#16Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 1:13pm
Aaron Tveit is NO WHERE near the 'star' that Daniel Radcliffe is. Very few outside the theater going community knows him. Danielle Radcliffe would have problems going to UGANDA without being recognized.
And before you jump on me, Uganda is just a random country I chose -- I have no idea if have movie theaters there.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#17Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 1:20pmHa, Taz. I come from an academic background where "fetish" and "fetishizing" have a slightly different meaning than they do generally. But to "fetishize" does mean to have an irrational, often emotional, connection to something--and that something can be a person.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#18Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 1:21pmI keep one of Maryann Plunkett's shoes from "Sunday in the Park with George" in a plastic bag.
#19Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 1:29pm
I know AC, and it's definitely an appropriate word choice here. I was just teasing about its connotation.
....but the world goes 'round
#20Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 1:37pm
The only time I'd be pissed to see an understudy is if I'm going to see a show specifically for one performer.
Exactly. So what happens when Aaron calls out one day to give Jay Johnson a chance and someone comes online complaining that she came all the way from Arizona specifically to see Aaron Tveit, and he was out? There's no way to make everyone happy.
Kad is spot-on. Fans don't actually care if understudies get a chance to go on- unless they can see it and lord it over other fans who didn't.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#21Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 2:37pmIn regards to CATCH ME IF YOU CAN, I do know that Jay Armstrong Johnson is a really good performer (having seen him in HAIR), but who knows, Jay could be the one chosen to play Frank on tour and he'll be on full time.
Check out my eBay page for sales on Playbills!!
www.ebay.com/usr/missvirginiahamm
Dave516
Chorus Member Joined: 9/19/08
#22Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 3:07pm
QuizKing, those were my thoughts as well. A lot of times, producers will look to the understudy to play the role on tour when the star is unwilling to go out on the road.
As far as Aaron calling out so that Jay perform, this has certainly happened before and is a very humble gesture, but it would either cost Aaron a sick/vacation day that he has accrued or he will be docked the pay of missing that performance. If Aaron truly hasn't missed a performance yet, why would he be interested in ruining that streak so close to the end? Many actors pride themselves on these streaks. I'm sure the producers don't mind that the actor they hand picked to play the role isn't missing performances either.
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#23Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 3:19pmWell...since the show is about to close, I don't think him wasting a sick day is a real concern. I'm guessing they don't get paid for unused sick time upon leaving. (Although I've heard some big name actors recieve bonuses when they don't use them.) But in some circumstances that does come into play (ie. the understudy leaving the show.)
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#24Understudy fetishism?
Posted: 8/11/11 at 3:22pmI read elsewhere that Jay was offered the tour but didn't accept it. No idea how valid it is though.
