Raquel Welch in Victor, Victoria

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 12:00am

https://youtu.be/4ewVtmXhQjY

[inception]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 12:28pm

How could anyone mistake Ms Welch for a female impersonator when she filled out the costumes so completely?  With Andrews it was a bit more believable.

Also, in 1997 no one had smartphones, so this means someone had to sneak a camcorder in & keep it hidden from ushers.  Pretty remarkable actually.

[ManOfLaMuncha]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 12:43am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUMcB5Gfp0o

 

here she is singing with cher, and her voice analyzed

[pmensky]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 3:38am

inception said: "How could anyone mistake Ms Welch for a female impersonator when she filled out the costumes so completely? With Andrews it was a bit more believable.

Also, in 1997 no one had smartphones, so this means someone had to sneak a camcorder in & keep it hidden from ushers. Pretty remarkable actually."

With the exception of King Marchand, Victoria’s gender isn’t questioned for the same reason that no one ever recognizes that Clark Kent looks just like Superman in glasses. For the characters in the play, they believe what they believe simply because it’s written that way. For audiences, we suspend disbelief, because we know it’s a play. Also, bootlegs go back way before 1997.

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 12:52pm

did you see Welch? I did. Awful. 
 

the ways things were bootlegged back then is fun 

[David10086]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 1:02pm

I'm genuinely surprised that ALW didn't offer her 'Norma Desmond' in 'Sunset Boulevard' when Buckley was leaving.  She had the facial features of a silent screen star, and she had the height (something Elaine Paige didn't have). She would have looked regal in the Norma drag.

[pmensky]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 4:10pm

David10086 said: "I'm genuinely surprised that ALW didn't offer her 'Norma Desmond' in 'Sunset Boulevard' when Buckley was leaving. She had the facial features of a silent screen star, and she had the height (something Elaine Paige didn't have). She would have looked regal in the Norma drag."

I saw Paige play Norma in London in August of ‘95, and I never had a thought about her height when I was watching the show. I know the set was smaller at the Adelphi, so maybe the scale of it at the Minskoff is what made people notice and comment on her height. I’m glad she got to make her Broadway debut in the role, as it was long overdue. Her Norma was a close second to Betty’s for me. I did not see Welch in V/V, but based on the videos, I don’t think she would have had the vocal prowess to play Norma.

[David10086]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 5:14pm

"I don’t think she would have had the vocal prowess to play Norma."

 

But not many Normas did have the vocal prowess after LuPone, Close, and Buckley - which is why ALW resorted to changing the keys for each "name" he put into the role, and worked with what they could offer vocally. 

[pmensky]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 5:30pm

David10086 said: ""I don’t think she would have had the vocal prowess to play Norma."



But not many Normas did have the vocal prowess after LuPone, Close, and Buckley - which is why ALW resorted to changing the keys for each "name" he put into the role, and worked with what they could offer vocally."

Aside from Karen Mason, who was more than capable, Elaine Paige was the only one to play the role of Norma on Broadway after Close and Buckley, so I’m not sure who you’re talking about in terms of key changes. Also, changing a key doesn’t mean the singer is inept. It just means their voice sounds better in that key.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 11:44pm

SUNSET BLVD was mounted globally with star names in each of their respective countries - Debra Byrne (Australia), Helen Schneider (Germany), etc. As mentioned above, keys were modified to suit each actress - not just on Broadway.  Also, it’s been noted that Patti LuPone and Linda Balgord (from the 1st US National Tour) are the only actresses who sang the role in the original keys.  

[David10086]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 12:16am

pmensky said: "David10086 said: ""I don’t think she would have had the vocal prowess to play Norma."



But not many Normas did have the vocal prowess after LuPone, Close, and Buckley - which is why ALW resorted to changing the keys for each "name" he put into the role, and worked with what they could offer vocally."

Aside from Karen Mason, who was more than capable, Elaine Paige was the only one to play the role of Norma on Broadway after Close and Buckley, so I’m not sure who you’re talking about in terms of key changes. Also, changing a key doesn’t mean the singer is inept. It just means their voice sounds better in that key."

Diahann Carroll. 

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 12:38am

I adore Diahann Carroll on the Canadian cast album. 
 

Circling back around, I definitely wish I could have seen Raquel Welch in Victor Victoria and I think she could have been an interesting choice for Norma in whatever key worked best for her.

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 2:49am

Maureen Moore and Susan Dawn Carson also played Norma on Broadway along with Karen. I enjoyed Maureen’s Norma, loved her as Rose when she went on for peters in gypsy. 
 

i saw V/V out of town and on Broadway many times, Welch was bad. Liza was fun. 
 

pmensky said: "David10086 said: ""I don’t think she would have had the vocal prowess to play Norma."



But not many Normas did have the vocal prowess after LuPone, Close, and Buckley - which is why ALW resorted to changing the keys for each "name" he put into the role, and worked with what they could offer vocally."

Aside from Karen Mason, who was more than capable, Elaine Paige was the only one to play the role of Norma on Broadway after Close and Buckley, so I’m not sure who you’re talking about in terms of key changes. Also, changing a key doesn’t mean the singer is inept. It just means their voice sounds better in that key."

 

[pmensky]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 8:25am

David10086 said: "pmensky said: "David10086 said: ""I don’t think she would have had the vocal prowess to play Norma."



But not many Normas did have the vocal prowess after LuPone, Close, and Buckley - which is why ALW resorted to changing the keys for each "name" he put into the role, and worked with what they could offer vocally."

Aside from Karen Mason, who was more than capable, Elaine Paige was the only one to play the role of Norma on Broadway after Close and Buckley, so I’m not sure who you’re talking about in terms of key changes. Also, changing a key doesn’t mean the singer is inept. It just means their voice sounds better in that key."

Diahann Carroll."

I’ll remind you and others here that the subject of discussions was why I don’t think Raquel Welch had the vocal prowess to play Norma Desmond on BROADWAY. I am well aware that actors have played the role in Toronto, Munich, Perth Amboy, some of you in your living rooms late at night, etc., but those performance spaces are not Broadway. The fact still remains that Raquel Welch never had the vocal prowess to play Norma Desmond on Broadway. Feel free to continue babbling about actors playing the role in the hinterlands, key changes, etc., but that has nothing to go with the point I made.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 9:11am

pmensky said: "David10086 said: "pmensky said: "David10086 said: ""I don’t think she would have had the vocal prowess to play Norma."



But not many Normas did have the vocal prowess after LuPone, Close, and Buckley - which is why ALW resorted to changing the keys for each "name" he put into the role, and worked with what they could offer vocally."

Aside from Karen Mason, who was more than capable, Elaine Paige was the only one to play the role of Norma on Broadway after Close and Buckley, so I’m not sure who you’re talking about in terms of key changes. Also, changing a key doesn’t mean the singer is inept. It just means their voice sounds better in that key."

Diahann Carroll."

I’ll remind you and others here that the subject of discussions was why I don’t think Raquel Welch had the vocal prowess to play Norma Desmond on BROADWAY. I am well aware that actors have played the role in Toronto, Munich, Perth Amboy, some of you in your living rooms late at night, etc., but those performance spaces are not Broadway. The fact still remains that Raquel Welch never had the vocal prowess to play Norma Desmond on Broadway. Feel free to continue babbling about actors playing the role in the hinterlands, key changes, etc., but that has nothing to go with the point I made."
 

Wow. Chill. It is not that serious. While Welch may not have been your cup of tea in V/V - I can assure you she was a knockout in “Woman of the Year”. 

[Ke3]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 9:37am

ALW approached *Diana Ross, Cher, and Olivia Newton-John to take over Sunset on Broadway. Clearly changing the keys would not have mattered to him since none of them sing in the same key and as stars would’ve had the key tailored to them anyway.

(*the Diana Ross one is particularly interesting because he was quite rude to Diahann Carroll at her audition and told her, "there were no Black silent film stars." So, Lord Andy can clearly shift his priorities when he's bleeding money out the ***. so again, I doubt keys would've mattered)

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 10:09am

Ke3 said: "ALW approached *Diana Ross, Cher, and Olivia Newton-John to take over Sunset on Broadway. Clearly changing the keys would not have mattered to him since none of them sing in the same key and as stars would’ve had the key tailored to them anyway.

(*the Diana Ross one is particularly interesting because he was quite rude to Diahann Carroll at her audition and told her, "there were no Black silent film stars." So, Lord Andy can clearly shift his priorities when he's bleeding money out the ***. so again, I doubt keys would've mattered)"

If ALW did say that to Miss Carroll he is a giant orifice. 

He should have been grateful an immensely talented and gifted performer was in his presence. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 10:52am

What an awful song! Why'd they replace Crazy World?

Raquel Welch was to do a revisal APPLAUSE in 1996 but dropped out and was replaced by Stefanie Powers. It premiered at Paper Mill with Broadway aspirations by the Weisslers, then closed after just 4 tour stops. It was substantially revised by the original authors. Gene Saks directed, Ann Reinking choreographed, and John McDaniel was the MD.

Proclaimed by the NYT as:

"a star-driven vehicle without a star, a story-driven musical with a diminished story, and a song-and-dance show with blah songs and spectacularly terrible dances."

I don't know that Welch would have sold any better than Powers in 1996, but might have been a bit more interesting.

[Ke3]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 11:56am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "What an awful song! Why'd they replace Crazy World?

Raquel Welch was to do a revisal APPLAUSE in 1996 but dropped out and was replaced by Stefanie Powers. It premiered at Paper Mill with Broadway aspirations by the Weisslers, then closed after just 4 tour stops. It was substantially revised by the original authors. Gene Saks directed, Ann Reinking choreographed, and John McDaniel was the MD.

Proclaimed by the NYT as:

"a star-driven vehicle without a star, a story-driven musical with a diminished story, and a song-and-dance show with blah songs and spectacularly terrible dances."

I don't know that Welch would have soldanybetter than Powers in 1996, but might have been a bit more interesting."

Fun fact, Diahann Carroll was offered this revival but turned it down as she had promised Garth Drabinsky that she would follow Sunset to Montreal when the Toronto run closed. They didn’t yet have a formal contract but she gave him her word and she honored it.

[David10086]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 12:04am

In her memoir, Carroll also said she wanted to replace Buckley on Broadway and had let ALW know. After all, she had a successful run in Toronto. But he just didn’t like her for whatever reason ( she strongly hints at racism) and he told her no. So she extended with Montreal through April 1997 a week after London and Broadway shuttered. 

[pmensky]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 1:13am

David10086 said: "In her memoir, Carroll also said she wanted to replace Buckley on Broadway and had let ALW know. After all, she had a successful run in Toronto. But he just didn’t like her for whatever reason ( she strongly hints at racism) and he told her no. So she extended with Montreal through April 1997 a week after London and Broadway shuttered."

Where. Are. The. Moderators.

[djjd007]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 10:08am

When did Sunset ever play Montreal. It was just Toronto and Vancouver, right? I heard the story that the Canadian cast was going to tour North America after the two sit downs. I believe that is why Carroll continued on. She enjoyed the role, identified with it, and was a familiar name to lead the tour. Webber put kibosh on that, maybe due to salary demands or other reasons. I do question his motives, as the road surely would’ve fared better with some kind of name rather than close after a few stops. However, we did get the keys raised again for Balgord on the tour, someone should tell that to Patti. Lol

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 10:23am

I believe there was always some tension between ALW and Garth for Phantom (w Colm Wilkinson, which Garth insisted on Hal supervising personally), Joseph (Garth was the mastermind behind the Donny Osmond production in Canada and then Chicago), and Sunset (for which Garth wanted stars and an album). Both want to be the showman, and there's not enough air in any room for one, let alone two. Garth was also aggressive in advertising an under-2-hour flight to Toronto from north-midwest US cities, instead of going to Broadway or waiting for a tour –– which Andrew and Cameron didn't love.

All that to say, the Garth of it all probably made Diahann "damaged goods" as much as the possible racism of it all.