Spotlight On RICHARD III: Haydn Gwynne

Today we are completing our triptych look at the leading ladies of the new BAM production of RICHARD III, directed by Sam Mendes and starring Kevin Spacey, with a solo spotlight on a stage and screen star known for her wide range of roles in dramas, comedies, musicals, television and film - the one and only Haydn Gwynne. In addition to all about her intense preparation for her role in the searing and prescient Shakespearean historical tragedy, Gwynne also recounts her experiences working with Mendes, Spacey and the previous ladies who have participated in this RICHARD III spotlight with whom she shares the stage every night now through March 4, Gemma Jones and Maureen Anderman. Besides all about RICHARD III and its international tour begun at the Old Vic in London's West End and ending up in New York at BAM, Gwynne and I also discuss her recent stage work in Elton John and Lee Hall's Tony-winning international hit musical Billy Elliot and she describes the process of working with theatre and film director Stephen Daldry on it, as well as some remembrances of her other notable stage and screen roles, old and new - prior musicals (such as CITY OF ANGELS), as well as her recent guest-starring stint on the hit BBC series SHERLOCK included, in addition to a look ahead to her new feature film, HUNKY DORY, starring Minnie Driver. All of that and much, much more!

Further information on RICHARD III at BAM can be found here.

The Journey Of A Queen

PC: In the recent countdown of the top quotes of Shakespeare we had on BroadwayWorld, I cited "Now is the Winter of our discontent," as one of the most memorable lines and moments in the canon. Do you feel that line is the most classic from RICHARD III or perhaps is there another moment you prefer?

HG: Oh, that's a great line - the most well known line. I do find his speech after the nightmare rather extraordinary and very modern - you know, when he wakes up from the ghost scene in the fifth act. "Is there a murderer here?"

PC: Especially since the murderer is actually Richard!

HG: Right. "I am I" - I mean, it's just so very forward-thinking in terms of it being compared to what else was being written at the time. It's very early Shakespeare, after all.

PC: Were you chomping at the bit to take on this part? It's such a rich role.

HG: Well, if I'm completely honest, no, because I didn't remember the role! [Laughs.]

PC: That makes sense.

HG: I didn't know the play very well - I am weaker on the histories than I am on the comedies and on the tragedies. Although, I did see a lot of the RSC history cycle - which was marvelous - a couple of years ago. I saw HENRY VI Part 1, 2 and 3, but I couldn't get a ticket for RICHARD III! [Laughs.]

PC: It was a hot ticket!

HG: Of course, in the film, the women are marginalized very much - there is a bit of the Lady Anne scene, but the others…

PC: It's mostly all Richard, all the time in the McKellen film.

HG: Margaret is cut, too - a lot of scenes are cut. So, you know, I don't think that this is as well known as some other, lesser roles. So, the surprise to me was, when I was offered it, I was like, "Very lovely - very flattering. But, because of the touring commitments, obviously I won't be doing it." That was my first thought, if I'm honest.

PC: How lucky we are you didn't follow that initial instinct.

HG: I didn't know the role and I thought that she might just have a couple of scenes - you know, like a lot of the women in the histories. But, in fact, it was when I picked up the script to read it, that I realized, as I went through the play, "Oh, I see - actually, not only does she have a decent role, but she has a journey. And, she has that wonderful confrontation with Richard in the second half."

PC: The best moment of all.

HG: So, my first response after that was, "Well, yes, maybe I am interested!" [Big Laugh.] My only worry was what they were planning in terms of cuts. So, that was that.

PC: Gemma Jones and Maureen Anderman have both done this series and both told me how jealous they are of your stupendous role.

HG: [Laughs.] Haha! Yeah. But, I do think that what Sam has done very well is focus the women very well - of course, with Gemma's role, this thing he has done where he made her like a seer.

PC: A prescient spectre.

HG: Yes - a prophet and a seer; as she says. So, she does appear, of course, throughout the play - in our production - and she is a strong presence throughout the play in a way that is not on the page. Of course, in the play, she just has two scenes - and, if you are playing it like the RSC did with the same actress playing the part right through the histories, of course that is an amazing role with an incredible journey if you take her through all the parts of HENRY VI. But, of course, if you are just doing that part in RICHARD III - as people usually are - you know, they are wonderful scenes, but they are not threaded together.

PC: Definitely not. Sam added a lot of shading and development.

HG: Similarly, the Duchess Of York; she has some good moments - but, again, that is one of the roles that has been cut down because, of course, for instance, there is a scene with Clarence's children that features that character and that is gone. But, what is left, I think Sam has focused very well.

PC: Giving all three of you a moment for us to remember long after the production has closed.

HG: Yes, and I think that what Elizabeth has is more of a very specific journey - then, of course, she is really the only person in the play who Shakespeare ultimately allows to really stand up to Richard and almost best him, intellectually anyway, in their big confrontation.

PC: Would you say RICHARD III is evocative of JULIUS CAESER in some ways - particularly the political intrigue and family-versus-royalty elements?

HG: I think that, also, a forerunner was MACBETH - though, of course, it is much more sophisticated and Shakespeare was a very experienced writer by then. You know, that whole journey of a man with a conscious coming to the fore in MACBETH. So, it is interesting to compare those two roles and to see what the experience of the older playwright versus the young playwright is.

PC: TIMON OF ATHENS was recently revived in New York in a modern dress production and it seems to have been the ideal time to revive it given the financial crisis and so on. Do you think now is right the time for RICHARD III to be reevaluated?

HG: I don't know - I think RICHARD has always been so popular; it's been one of the most performed over the centuries.

PC: Indeed. Why do you think that is?

HG: I think that is because of this incredible central role and what Richard is allowed to be, as well as the tragedy of the play. Of course, Richard is very funny and Kevin, particularly, goes for that. Of course, for centuries, it was a sort of bastardized version that they did, but people keep coming back to it because great actors want to have a crack at it and audiences enjoy it. I am no expert, but I don't think that RICHARD has gone in and out of fashion and has suffered quite as much as a play like TIMON.

PC: Definitely not.

HG: And, I think that one of the great things about Shakespeare and one of the reasons why he has lasted for so long is how universal he is.

PC: Without question.

HG: You know, the journey of the tyrant is, sadly, always with us - it's not like twenty years ago there weren't tyrants and dictatorships running amuck in the world. We live in that kind of world where that is going on in other countries and has never been not.

PC: Do you see this as a contemporary take on RICHARD III?

HG: It's non-specific. I mean, many, many classic plays are presented like that now - probably more than half the time it is to do with the budget! [Laughs.]

PC: Undoubtedly true!

HG: I mean, if you are trying to dress up a piece in period, it is immediately incredibly expensive. So, I think we are very used to classical theatre pieces being done in a contemporary way. I think that the difference between this and the canon version - one of the many differences between this and the canon version - is that the canon version was a very specifically timed and imagined show, if I remember rightly. You know, I saw the stage version on which the Ian McKellen film was based.

PC: Set in the 1930s.

HG: It was the only RICHARD I have ever seen onstage - the Fascist England in the late-1930s. Our production, particularly with the Bridge Project with half-American and half-British actors all using their own voices, you can't say, "Oh, this is now in England, 2011," because, in that case, why has Richard III got an American accent? Why does his brother have an English accent?

PC: A completely contemporary take would open a can of worms.

HG: In a way, you have to create your own universe. Of course, yes, loads of it is filled with lots of contemporary references and some contemporary costumes - although, the women are in non-specific times. My outfits are not modern - they are not specific to their period, but they are not modern. Yes, we have a video screen, but we also have swords. So, it's got to create - partly because of the nature of the Bridge Project - it can't be specific, it's got to create its own universe, if that makes sense.

PC: Perfect sense. It also allows a further exploration of the dynamic between old versus new that the play focuses on.

HG: Yes. Yes.

PC: What can you tell me about sharing the stage and the backstage with Gemma and Maureen every night as you have toured this production around the world? Is it the lone few women in a play of men for you three?

HG: Well, we've certainly done some things together, but we haven't been our own separate little group, either. I think that, fortunately, we all get on very well - we all share a dressing room, after all.

PC: Has that been the case all along?

HG: At the Old Vic, I had a smaller dressing room with Gemma - John Gielgud's old dressing room, so that was very nice; thank you very much. Depending on the theater and the nature of the room, sometimes we would be split up in different ways. A lot of places we have shared together, and, here, all the women are in a dressing room together. Fortunately, we all get on very well so we are very happy to be our little league of women.

PC: Oh happy we - oh happy three!

HG: Yeah. Yeah. [Laughs.]

PC: Is there any truth to the rumor that this production may be filmed?

HG: I don't know, but, actually, thank you for saying that because it has reminded me to go and ask! I thought we were going to do it in London and I was sort of surprised it didn't happen and I don't know quite why it didn't happen - I even think they had performances set aside towards the end for filming, but it didn't happen. I can tell you, if we are, I haven't been told about it. I kind of feel, at this stage, I doubt it - which was surprising because the National Theater has had huge success with broadcasting productions in cinema.

PC: The documentary is definitely being done, though, yes?

HG: Yeah - the documentary, but that is very different. I think it would be a shame if they didn't film this production. I will be very interested to see what happens.

PC: This version is very faithful to the text and contains the majority of the play, whereas the film and many revivals cut it to shreds. The film is about half the text.

HG: You're right. The film is fantastic, but it is partly fantastic because they have really taken the bull by the horns and gone, "We're gonna try and make a movie - we're not going to do RICHARD III, the play."

PC: It is a fully cinematic adaptation.

HG: I think that that is one of the film's strengths - as you know, they managed to get a great deal of the feel of the play in it, but, in terms of word count, it must be a fraction of what's actually there.

PC: Tell me about performing for over 11,000 audience members in Greece.

HG: Oh, yeah. Well, in the middle of our London run - the theater went dark for a week - we took the show to Epidaurus, which is the great Greek amphitheatre about two and a half hours outside of Athens. So, it was in an open-air amphitheatre and we played to nearly 12,000 per performance.

PC: Wow. What did it feel like to experience that much energy from the stage?

HG: It was an absolutely incredible experience. No microphones - all natural acoustics. I mean, we had to pump it up - don't get me wrong - but, it was the most incredible experience; very moving.

PC: That must be the ultimate fulfillment for a classical actor such as yourself - to play Shakespeare in Greece in an amphitheatre.

HG: Yeah - that was where it all started! You know, to play certain scenes you had to just sort of overcome the space - the domestic scenes were sort of difficult to play and you had to just say, "OK. I'm gonna make this work in this space." But, other scenes, like the three women standing in front of the tower, saying lines like, "Pity you ancient stones," and you are looking at stones that are 2500 years old, it does bring a whole other level to it. [Laughs.]

PC: I can only imagine.

HG: The scenes that are sort of strange and more epic in nature, in the second half, were actually easier to play in that space because of the size.

PC: The stages are such different sizes that you have had to significantly adjust the show with Sam to fit into each venue, correct?

HG: Yes. I mean, the biggest adjustment was Greece.

PC: What was different?

HG: Well, you would come in and you would have a big circular space forward and a space that we inhabit - a big half-circle in front. We had some of our doors at the back and a couple of doors at the sides, so Sam actually came and we actually rehearsed all night, two nights in a row, to restage it.

PC: Were there any other major restagings?

HG: Everywhere else, we have had one of two side sets - one is a bit smaller and narrower, which was the Old Vic set; otherwise, we have had the wide set. Some places didn't have quite as much depth as others, but, mostly, for us, it's certainly rather extraordinary to travel to all these different places. By the time, of course, the actors go into the building, you know, there's our set again. We, in a way, have the easiest job - I mean, yes, we have to adapt to the space and the auditorium and the acoustics and learn about that; but, the people that are really the champions of that side of it are really the crew and the set builders. They have to wrangle our set and everything to do with it and communicate with the foreign crew that we borrow everywhere we go - they are the people with the really tough job from that point of view. By the time we arrive, that very difficult bit has been done for us.

PC: Does Queen Elizabeth feel like the right role for you at this particular point in your life and at this moment in your career? You've spent almost a year performing this role now.

HG: By the time we finish, it will be almost a year from first rehearsal to last performance. But, I am not sorry to have done it - not in the least.

PC: Do you find it a rewarding experience?

HG: Yes. It was a difficult decision because of family - you know, I have never left them before for any specific period.

PC: Both your children are still in school, too, right?

HG: Yeah - 11 and 14. They went to school here when I did Billy Elliot - they came with me. But, yes, I have enjoyed it and I have found it tremendously satisfying professionally. [Pause.] So, yeah, I am quite glad I took a punt! [Laughs.]

PC: Do your children have a fondness for Billy Elliot over this, perhaps?

HG: Oh, I don't know! I don't know. They did see Billy Elliot several times - to my cost, as I know! [Laughs.] But, they've seen this three times - they saw it in London and in Greece and in San Francisco.

PC: Faith Prince recently did this column and we talked all about doing Billy Elliot in San Francisco. It was a wonderful tour. Did you see her in it?

HG: Oh, yes - Faith. No, I did not see her in it because it had finished by the time I got there, but I've heard wonderful things about Faith.

PC: Have you seen other actresses in your role?

HG: I have. Yes. More in London than here, because, obviously, I saw them after I left here. I did see Emily [Skinner] do it here, though, because it was, literally, the night after I flew in to do this - it was just about to come off, so I saw it two nights before it closed. In London, I've seen at least three other actors do it.

PC: Some performers tell me they find it difficult to go back and see a production they appeared in originally. Do you ever feel that way?

HG: Well, to be honest, I haven't had the experience before, really, because I don't normally do musicals and the ones I did do closed.

PC: The criminally underrated CITY OF ANGELS included on that list of musicals.

HG: Yes. Yes - CITY OF ANGELS. So, nobody ever took over for me so I couldn't go back. But, I will tell you, the first time I did it I did have to take a kind of  deep breath - it was very, very weird. But, I thought, "Well, what if I don't go to see it and then we get invited back?" So, one of the reasons I went back, initially, was that I would go back to the final shows of the Billys that I worked with. I think I worked with at least seven Billys, so when they were doing a leaving show, I would go - and, then, also, I saw the fifth anniversary in London. I don't want to miss those sorts of things, so I just had to sort of dive in. Once I got over the shock of seeing it the first time, then I was fine after that - I had crossed the Rubicon, as it were. [Laughs.]

PC: Since you have done major plays and musicals in both the West End and on Broadway, do you find the audiences are much different? Kevin is getting standing ovations every night, everywhere, I hear.

HG: Yes - and we have everywhere around the world. It's extraordinary. We got standing ovations in England, as well - as we did with Billy Elliot. So, it's rather odd that I should have done two shows close together that got that reaction. But, one has to remember, that is not typical - as you say, particularly in England. I mean, in some ways, I think there is more difference between San Francisco and New York - the actual audiences - than there were between London and Brooklyn. There is definitely a significant difference.

PC: What a fascinating insight. Why do you think that is?

HG: Well, it has been one of the pleasures of this show, particularly to take it to non-English-speaking audiences and seeing how they react while reading surtitles. Also, how attentive they are and what lines they laugh at - lines that have different cultural, political or whatever resonances for them. So, suddenly, you'll get a laugh on a line and you go, "Blimey! Why is that funny?" And, of course, it is something you don't know, but it is something that strikes a chord for that audience in that country. That, actually, has been fun to experience. It has also been fun to play different spaces and adapting to that. I think that playing this show, week after week, month after month, in one space, you know, it would have been a real challenge to keep the freshness, but the fact that we are going to all these different places has brought its own in-built variety.

PC: Stephen Daldry, your director of Billy Elliot - what was it like working with him?

HG: Stephen is great fun and stunningly talented. I enjoyed him very much and we have stayed in touch. Again, it's a rather weird coincidence that, of course, on this I have been working with Sam Mendes - it is highly unusual, but they have had a sort of similar track of being very good, wonderful theatre directors in England and, not exactly by accident, but they happened to go into film and had big successes right away and established very high-profile movie careers right off the bat. They have that in common, so it is rather odd that I have gone from one to the other.

PC: Have you see Stephen's recently Oscar-nominated film, EXTREMELY LOUD AND INCREDIBLY CLOSE?

HG: No, I still haven't seen Stephen's latest movie, but I was at the very first screening of THE READER. He was finishing THE READER when we were doing Billy Elliot in New York, so some of the actors and I went and watched it with him - the first screening of the final cut of THE READER before it came out.

PC: Starring the former Mrs. Sam Mendes, Kate Winslet, in her Oscar-winning role - in yet another career connection of yours.

HG: Yes! That's right. Absolutely! I can't remember, but it might have been the night before the Oscar nominations were announced. We had supper together and I remember saying to Stephen, "You do realize, if Kate wins - because Nicole [Kidman] won for THE HOURS - you will have all of these actresses beating a path to your door." Stephen Daldry, Oscar-maker - you know?

PC: Indeed. Pete Postlethwaite just passed away recently and I know you filmed a movie with him not too long before his death, PLAYER.

HG: I did. That was a short film, PLAYER. I didn't know Pete well because I didn't do any plays with Pete and because, of course, THE PLAYER was a short film, but I had been acquainted with him and we did have a lot of mutual friends in common.

PC: What were your impressions of him?

HG: He was an extraordinary, eccentric, dedicated, generous man - all of those things he appeared to be. He really was. All of that in addition to being a wonderful actor. It's really such a cliché to say, but he really was great. He was one of those people that you can't duplicate. Who can be Pete Postlethwaite but Pete Postlethwaite? It was really desperately, desperately sad because he was a really lovely man.

PC: His performance in Baz Luhrmann's ROMEO + JULIET will live on forever, at the very least.

HG: Yes. He was also a great theatre actor for decades before he got well known on film - of course, for many, many British actors of his generation, that's where they started.

PC: SHERLOCK is becoming a big hit here in the States. Was it a fun experience to film your guest-starring role on that TV series?

HG: Yes, but, you know, I was only a guest - I noticed my episode was just on here, actually. They are rerunning the first series, I think. I think it's so great. I saw the first series and I missed the rest because I was away, but I can give you my advanced opinion of the first episode of the second series, which hasn't screened here yet but was on right before I left and came to New York - it was great! As good as ever. There is a lot more to look forward to!

PC: Will your character be appearing on the show again, do you think?

HG: No, no - I'm afraid not. I'm in jail, I should think! [Laughs.] Maybe they'll spring me and I'll get out, though!

PC: Why do you think SHERLOCK is such a huge hit?

HG: I think SHERLOCK is a big hit because it's such good quality scriptwriting. You first think, "SHERLOCK updated? Well, that's not going to work, is it?"

PC: But, it did - and how!

HG: But, it did. It did. It's very, very clever.

PC: You have a feature film coming out, as well - HUNKY DOREY starring Minnie Driver?

HG: Yes. Now, that was produced by a producer of Billy Elliot - among other things - and this is his first movie as an independent producer, so that's how I became involved.

PC: Were you pleased with the finished film? Have you seen it?

HG: I haven't seen it yet - I've been away. It premiered at the London Film Festival in November, but I was off wherever I was with RICHARD. I am going to just miss the premiere in the UK, too.

PC: A hit Shakespeare stage play, a great guest turn on SHERLOCK and a film coming out later this month - you have it all covered!

HG: Well, again - I only play a supporting role in the movie, but I am more than happy to be along for the ride! [Laughs.]

PC: What's next?

HG: Well, having been away for so long, there is nothing in the pipeline yet. So, it will be back to the storyboard once I am back in the UK - looking for the next job.

PC: The life of the working actor! This was a wonderful chat, Haydn. Thank you so very much.

HG: Thank you, Pat. This was a great chat. Bye bye.