Interview: 'It's Always So Deep and Cathartic When you Experience a Sondheim Show': Joaquin Pedro Valdes on PACIFIC OVERTURES at the Menier Chocolate Factory

Pacific Overtures, “one of Stephen Sondheim’s most ambitious, rarely seen creations,” is coming to the Menier Chocolate Factory, opening on 4 December.

With a book by John Weidman and music and lyrics by Stephen Sondheim, the show tells the story of the arrival of the Western World in Japan from the perspective of the Japanese. This production of Pacific Overtures completes the Menier Chocolate Factory’s trilogy of Sondheim and Weidman musicals, preceded by Assassins (2014) and Road Show (2011). 

BroadwayWorld sat down with Joaquin Pedro Valdes, who is taking on the role of John Manjiro in the show. We discussed how he first got started in musical theatre, what it has been like to be a part of such a unique Sondheim work, and how the themes of the show can be compared to sushi!

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How did you first get involved in the world of musical theatre?

Growing up in the Philippines, my folks always brought me to the theatre. It's not a normal Filipino thing to do, but my family in particular, they really liked musicals. It was almost a yearly tradition to watch the old classics on telly, or on whatever format we had recorded, like Betamax or VHS. So we would have collections of The Sound of Music, Fiddler on the Roof, Oliver! - these were regularly played at home. And we would have cast recordings. Back before compact discs, it would be cassettes, and cast recordings would have like four tapes, and they would be really nice!

I actually miss those, because you'd have really nice inserts with the lyrics and production photos and really nice artwork. So growing up, every Christmas we would put up a Christmas show for our clan. It would happen Christmas Eve, and they would go full out! I remember we would have recordings of it on Handycam. It was full production - curtains, lights, sound system . . . That was our version of panto. We would do a little story, but then we would take music from different musicals. So whatever story, like The Day Santa Forgot Christmas or The Little Match Girl, but we would take songs from different musicals and incorporate them into the show. I grew up watching them. I was very young, so I was never really given a chance to act or sing - I was usually playing a tree or a mouse. They would find a way to incorporate me into the show. And these were among my cousins and my siblings, so musical theatre was really around me and I grew up loving it. 

What made you want to be a part of this production of Pacific Overtures?

Well, many things! I distinctly remember when they announced that the Menier Chocolate Factory was staging Pacific Overtures as a part of their trilogy of Stephen Sondheim and John Weidman. Previously, they'd done Assassins and Road Show to high critical acclaim. And Covid happened and all that, and they finally announced that Pacific Overtures was going to come to the Menier.

I remember tweeting about it and saying that this is something that at least I want to see because Pacific Overtures is one of those Sondheim shows that is rarely produced. For many reasons, people have always felt that it was one of those that was so “inaccessible,” but also, simultaneously, it was one of Sondheim's most sophisticated works as well. This is when he and John Weidman were really creating something on a genius level. One of Sondheim's personal favourite songs that he's ever written, “Someone in a Tree,” is in this show. So the true Sondheim fiends and aficionados know that Pacific Overtures is one of his most treasured works because it was really reflective of not just his craft, but his genius, and the fact that it was also rarely produced made this title elusive. 

When they announced that the Chocolate Factory, which is essentially a de facto temple to Sondheim work, was going to do it, everybody who was a musical theatre and Sondheim fan was at the edge of their seat, very excited for this production to happen. And finally, when I got the chance to audition for it, I remember telling my agent, “I'm gonna drop everything to make sure I get in the room because this is once in a lifetime.”

We didn't know when a revival of Pacific Overtures, in particular, would come back again. And also, with Sondheim's recent passing, interest in his work, which was already really prevalent, increased 100-fold. Because, like I heard someone else say, his work is going to be frozen in amber. It's gonna be Shakespeare levels for musical theatre. And it's nice to be part of that right now in the Menier. So a lot of boxes to tick and a lot of “pinch me” moments as well.

Can you tell us a bit about your character, John Manjiro, in the show?

So I play John Manjiro, a historic character - Pacific Overtures is set in 1853. Japan has been a closed country, isolated from the rest of the world. Finally, there was this moment in time wherein it had the opportunity to open up to the West, and that was catalysed by Commodore Matthew Perry's expedition to Japan and his gunboat diplomacy, basically forcing the hand of Japan to open up via this meeting at the treaty house [Kanagawa Treaty] that happened in 1853.

The way John Weidman and Stephen Sondheim tell this story is through the lens of two very different Japanese characters. One is John Manjiro - he is a fisherman who drifted away from Japan and found himself picked up by the Americans, was brought to Massachusetts, learned English, was educated there and basically learned the progressive ways of America. And then he wanted to come back to Japan, which in that time was actually punishable by death... because he wanted to bring his countrymen closer to the progress and the ideas that America was discovering and innovating. 

At the same time, there is a samurai who is the foil to John Manjiro, Kayama Yesaemon, played by an incredible actor from Japan, Takuro Ohno. And he gets chosen by the Shogun to be the diplomat to deal with these barbarians, these Westerners, people that they had never experienced before. Kayama and Manjiro form this unique friendship, but also, their relationship is a metaphor of the tension that was happening within Japan.

As Kayama becomes more and more attuned with the Western ways, Manjiro, who comes back from the West, becomes more and more attuned to the traditional and ancient ways of Japan. They intersect for a brief moment and their friendship is so beautiful and poetic, but also so fleeting, because they proceed to go into the complete opposite of each other. There's a lot of beauty and tragedy, as with Sondheim's genius, represented in that relationship.

What has it been like being a part of this production with the Menier Chocolate Factory and the Umeda Arts Theater in Japan?

It's incredible. I think London is in for a real treat. I catch myself in the middle of rehearsals and seeing this incredible company, the whole ensemble . . .  The unique thing about Pacific Overtures, the genius of it, is the way it's told. It’s not done in the traditional Western way of storytelling. In the West, we're so used to the 3-act or 5-act structure - the beginning, middle, end and all that. John Weidman and Stephen Sondheim really paid homage to the very Eastern way of telling stories, which is episodic, lots of different points of view to a singular event. I love that about Asian cinema. Wong Kar-wai, Akira Kurosawa and a lot of Asian storytellers tell things in episodic ways, which is a very fresh way to tell stories other than the Western way - not to say one is better than the other! And that’s really prevalent here in this staging. You have central characters moving around for the audience to follow, but there's also means and ways that tell these different points of view to a certain event, and you really see the whole ensemble utilised - each one of them really has a moment to shine. 

With Umeda Arts, the creative team has already staged this in Osaka and Tokyo in Japanese. So you have these hands and these eyes on this material. But the way they staged it in Japan during Covid was in the proscenium arch theatre, in a traditional theatre, where you have the audience almost very distant to what’s happening on stage. But what's happening here in the Chocolate Factory, because of the unique space, we're doing it in the traverse, and we have the audience so close to the action. It's the same people involved in the Umeda Arts production, but it feels like a very original and brand new staging of it - the design is so specific and meticulous. We also have You-Ri Yamanaka, who is our Cultural Consultant, and we have our friends from the Umeda Arts, Yoko Mori, who is in town, to really be intentional with all of the cultural aspects so that everything is as authentic and as honest as possible. 

Our costumes, which were done by Ayako Maeda - she'd done the costumes in the original production in Tokyo and Osaka, they brought those costume designs here. I just had a whole hour session of hakama and kimono wearing! The costumes are not costumes - the costumes are part of the character. The way I need to tie a knot - how tight it is, where the knot should be placed - close to the core, to the centre of your being.

We have workshops on how to bow, how to sit, how to stand and how to walk. I don't mean this in any light way, I compare this to an omakase in a traditional sushi restaurant - there is so much care, so much attention to detail and honour in taking care of the purity of each ingredient. So even if it's just a small ball of rice and a sliver of fish brushed with some soy sauce, it is the perfect bite. Nothing is overseasoned, nothing is more than what you need and nothing is less than what you need. Everything is just right. When the sushi chef puts it right in front of you, you really need to take a break, a pause before you consume it, because it's almost a ritual. It's almost spiritual in how they do things, and that is what this show is. 

Everything is so precise because there's a meaning and an honour behind the effort put into every aspect of the production. And we try and take that as much as we can into the actual performance as well. So I think people are going to be really in for a treat - it's going to take them into a world that is so fascinating, and also telling the story which needs to be heard.  

I don't even think you can really freeze an interpretation of the work into just one way. It's constantly evolving. It's constantly living. And when the audience comes and experience it, it's also going to have an impact, so it's very exciting.

What do you hope audiences take away from Pacific Overtures?

There's a lot to take away from it. One is the genius of Stephen Sondheim and John Weidman. The depths and the countless layers of the Japanese culture and the Western culture, and how that marries the relationship of Kayama and Manjiro, which is going to be reflected in the relationship of Japan and the West. But more than anything, you're going to find the universal story of finding who you are and the choices that you make, in a very significant point in history.

I know it sounds profound, but there’s a Japanese concept that our cultural consultant has taught us. We apply it to the movement, we apply it to the design, we apply it to the performance - Ma, or negative space. The Japanese concept of Ma is a philosophical concept of the space between the edges, between the beginning and end, the space in between, literally meaning a gap, a space or a pause. And this show is that pause - this relationship of Manjiro and Kayama is a pause. Us realising where we are now in history is a pause. Remembering what happened to Japan as it opened up to the West, and all the good and the bad that came with that, to bring us to where we are now, is also a pause.

Like with any Sondheim show, you can't just go away saying, “Oh yeah, that was a good night in the theatre! I'm going to hum some nice hummable tunes.” It's not that. There's something always so deep and cathartic when you experience a Sondheim show, whether you're doing it like us, or whether you're watching it.

How would you describe Pacific Overtures in one word?

In one word? Cathartic.

Pacific Overtures runs from until 24 February 2024 at the Menier Chocolate Factory.

Photo Credits: Manuel Harlan

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