Interview: Jos N. Banks is Pulling Double Duty on FAT HAM at Orlando Shakes
Jos sits down to talk about merging costume narrative and character truth at the backyard BBQ.
Pictured: Je'Shaun Jackson (left) & Jos N. Banks (right) in FAT HAM.
From the fitting room to the stage, accomplished performer, designer, director, and educator Jos N. Banks is the definition of what it means to be a creative "multi-hyphenate." As both the costume designer and a lead performer in Orlando Shakes’ FAT HAM, Jos discusses the power of vulnerability, the reclamation of Southern imagery, and why it’s time for the theater industry to stop putting Black queer artists in a box.
Thank you for sitting with me this morning, Jos! In this production of FAT HAM, you are pulling double duty as both the costume designer and as Larry. Being a multi-hyphenate is demanding—what did the day-to-day "juggle" actually look like for you?
Honestly, it differentiates between productions. For this one specifically, because it is a small cast, my days usually involved arriving an hour or two before rehearsal—which typically started around noon or one o’clock—to do fittings. Then, I’d just walk right over to the rehearsal hall.
It wasn’t too much of a lift, but I definitely had more hours on campus than the rest of the cast. I welcomed it, though, because it made space for me to really learn my cast members and understand what they were trying to bring to the piece. I did start to feel the weight of it around tech week because of the early mornings. The show deals with so much in such a quick timeframe; you battle a lot of emotions very quickly. Juggling those emotional shifts on top of learning lines and early morning fittings is what eventually became strenuous. Otherwise, it was a breeze because our company is just delightful.
When it comes to the costumes, do you physically construct the pieces, or are you primarily designing and sourcing?
It’s a large collaboration of both. For a show like CABARET last season, we had many more pieces that were built from scratch. For a contemporary show like Fat Ham, a lot of it is sourced, but I don’t just leave it at that.
Because I am a designer who likes to incorporate the specific artists I’m clothing, I largely edit things. We might buy something and essentially use it for the fabric sourcing, and then we’ll make the garment anew and tailor it specifically to the actor in that track. You won't be able to go to a store and buy any of the pieces you see on stage flat-out; they are all heavily edited. The one exception is my finale costume, which was entirely constructed.
Alright, since you brought is up: that finale look is a great moment in the show. What was your creative process behind designing that specific garment for yourself? How much fun was that?
I had a lot of fun with it. I was greatly inspired by Beyoncé and Cowboy Carter. This is the second time I’ve designed this show, but the first time I’ve been a performer in it, so there were things I wanted to revisit from previous productions.
Since we’re performing in Florida, which is the South, and the play is based in the South, I wanted to lean into that. With the global success of Cowboy Carter, it felt right to tap into that cultural phenomenon. The gingham design was intentional—it references the red picnic tablecloth, but it also speaks to the Black American experience. There’s a connection to the racist imagery of Aunt Jemima, and I wanted to explore how we reclaim that and make it beautiful and powerful through drag storytelling. The result was a three-tiered skirt using different scales of gingham.
Another incredible detail is Juicy’s shirt featuring Tedra’s face. How did that idea come together?
I’m 35 and grew up in the nineties and early two-thousands when airbrushing was all the rage. One thing I love about the playwright, James Ijames, is that he gives creative license to the artists. He provides descriptions that are clear where they need to be but vague enough to allow for play. It feels like a love letter to a creative.
For Juicy’s shirt, I thought about what an overbearing, over-loving mom would do. She’s someone who is with the times and always feeling herself. I imagined her going to the mall, seeing a spray paint portrait artist, and thinking, "I’m going to put my face on this shirt, put 'Mama’s Boy' on it, and put his name on the back. He’ll love it!". It’s a total gag for the audience, and since the show is so camp, we just leaned into it.
Turning to your performance as Larry—he is a character that carries a lot of armor. He begins the show as “straight presenting” in a stereotypically masculine career. How do you find the balance between that rigidity and the queerness and vulnerability we see later?
That’s a beautiful question. Thank you for asking that. I’ll be honest: I struggle in our industry. A lot of people met me playing Lola in KINKY BOOTS, and I loved that role because of the duality—she’s a drag queen but also a professionally trained boxer. I find those polar opposites coexisting in one vessel to be so human because we aren't a monolith.
I fell in love with Larry for that same reason. There is such an opportunity to play strength through vulnerability, and I personally feel as Jos that vulnerability is one of my greatest strengths. I also just really understand Larry's background. I’m an older brother from a single-parent household, so I understand the rigidity of having to "step up" and falsify masculinity to fill a void. It’s a charade—a role you play because no one else is there to fill the position. I understand that greatly.
That duality between masculinity and queerness is so often misunderstood as being mutually exclusive.
Exactly. Just allow artists to be artists. Often, the industry wants to throw queer people in a box where they only do "queer shows". But I walk outside as a Black man first. I can just play a Black man. Why does the character breakdown have to be "gay first" or "over the top and flamboyant"? Those things are parts of me, sure, but I’m also just a dude. Just let me be a bro.
Theater is often seen as a queer domain, but FAT HAM specifically celebrates Black queerness. Are there certain scenes or moments where you feel that specific intersection is best represented?
I honestly feel that there are so many, and I don’t really want to pinpoint them all because I feel like they’re all relative and will hit home for different people. While it is very specific to Blackness and queerness, I also feel like people from all backgrounds will be able to identify certain characters they’ve known in their own families.
Juicy’s story is very different than Opal’s story, which is very different than Larry’s story, but they all coexist in Blackness and in queerness. I feel like there are as many ways to be Black as there are Black people, and there are as many ways to be queer as there are queer people in this world. The sooner that we all realize that, humanity will be so much better for all of us. There isn’t just one umbrella; there are so many different ways to celebrate Blackness, queerness, and joy because there are so many different walks of life.
That joy seems to be the lasting impression of the play—it goes through strenuous moments, but it ends by galvanizing those relationships rather than tearing them apart. There’s an afterglow of joy.
Absolutely. It’s just true. That joy totally reads into the show.
Larry’s turning point comes during that intense moment of conflict where he is outed. What is happening internally for him there?
I believe it’s a combination of betrayal and the need to maintain that role. He doesn't expect it to happen, and suddenly he feels the need to show dominance in front of his mom and sister. He’s trying to prove he is still the "man" they raised him to be. It’s sad that even in a moment where he could be true, he still decides to play a role.
His act of violence isn't great, but his desire to put others' feelings before his own says a lot about his heart. It’s complex, human, and flawed.It also reminds me of growing up as a boy—those "tussles" with cousins while watching WWE. We’d be practicing body slams on pillows. That roughhousing is just part of the experience. Juicy and Larry have known each other since childhood. When you're with someone you've known that long, you might be an adult, but mentally you go back to being 12 years old.
Alright, Jos: now, if you want to play, I’ve got a lightning round for you.
Ok, yeah!
Work bag essential?
Water.
Pre-show ritual?
I make a specific playlist for every show; this one is a mix of gospel and trap.
Post-show snack?
Our cast makes treats all the time, so it's usually that. But in the show, I make two plates of food on stage but don't get to eat them, so I always have a piece of honey butter cornbread from Pig Floyd’s afterward. They make it just for the show - it's not on the menu!
What are you watching, listening to, reading right now? Any recommendations?
When I'm leading up to or doing a show, I don't really watch many things. But I will definitely go down a YouTube rabbit hole.
Disney or Universal?
Disney.
Favorite theme park attraction?
Velocicoaster at Universal—it's fire—but Disney has my heart because of the kid in me.
FAT HAM runs at the Orlando Shakes through March 29. or tickets, visit the link below or call the box office at (407) 447-1700.
Photos courtesy of Orlando Shakes.
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