Letter from Susan Egan...- Page 2

[DrTheatre]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 6:09pm

Why should they fire him...should we now fire every person that works in the arts that said YES to 8?...this is way out of control...poor guy, he just stood up for what HE believed in, even if he works with those who think differently. Producing shows should have nothing to do with who you marry or not. All he cares about as that the show is produced and it makes money...that's his job, period!!!

[jarretSF]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 6:26pm

No, producing should have nothing to do with who you marry or not, but in this case, he donated money he earned off of the work of many performers, composers and stage managers and crew who are homosexual. For that, he is wrong.

Yes his money is his to do with as he pleases, but if we are looking at this from a purely theatrical standpoint, it's like a producer of Dreamgirls, or Ragtime, or Smokey Joes Cafe, or even Hairspray, donating to a cause that promoted racial segregation, and inequality for African Americans.

There is no legal reason he can be fired for his donation, but his company can lose money due to a boycott. I will not attend Music Circus this summer, or go see a show playing under the CMT umbrella ANY time of year, while he is still with the company.

Updated On: 11/10/08 at 06:26 PM

[DrTheatre]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 6:30pm

True beans to that Jarrett! Well said!

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 6:55pm

He doesn't work with those who THINK differently -- he works with, and has a job that depends largely on the talents of the community to whom he's working to deny basic civil rights. Big difference.

And I love Susan Egan.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 7:33pm

Be it $1 or $1,000,000 he still supports a bill that denies a basic civil right to a group of Americans. I am straight, but I will no longer support, or perform for CMT as long as Mr Eckern is employed there. This is a huge thing, and I will pass this on to everyone in my address book.
Bravo Susan Egan!

[massofmen]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 8:09pm

Does anyone think it Ironic that because of the massive African-American turnout in the past election, Prop 8 passed? Studies show that whites voted 49%-51% in favor of it, and african american's voted 70-30 in favor of it. If all of the african americans that usually stay home during elections did for this one as well, Prop 8 would not have passed.
Seems like change only matters when it concerns yourself. Change? Seems like more of the same.


I am a constant supporter of Civil Rights in this amazing and wonderful country of ours. Mr. Eckern (sp?) can do what ever the heck he wants with his money. Firing him you cannot do because it would be firing him based on discriminatory practices and not because of anything job based. He would sue the theater and win.
I applaud the people here who would like to show their dissent to his action by writing a letter informing the theater of their views. But if anyone here really thinks that the majority of actors in the Union where only 6% have health insurance and 8% made over $50,000 last year will stop auditioning there, I think you are sorely mistaken.
Maslow's hierarchy of laws tells us that some things are just too important.

[Ana11234]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 8:31pm

I don't normally post here- but was glad to see this thread.

I received a forward of this same email from a director friend of mine.

I am disheartened and dismayed that someone who works in theatre is personally working towards denying the civil rights of many who work for him.

I clicked on his bio- Scott Eckern (Artistic Director)....(http://www.californiamusicaltheatre.com/index.cfmpage=474824) ...
after noting that he graduated from BYU, the bio ends with a mention of his wife and children.

I happen to be gay. Apparently Scott Eckern (Artistic Director), who makes money from the talents of many gay theatre artists ( and patrons) - believes that we should all be bound by his personal religious beliefs. Which means that Scott Eckern (Artistic Director) is opposed to my right to have a family as he does, because I am gay.

I do find it ironic that in the middle of a huge forward movement for civil rights gay people have been disenfranchised.

I found Susan Egan's letter heartwarming.

I would not feel comfortable working for or going to ( as an audience member) a theatre with administrative people at that level who oppose my civil rights. And yes, I do consider marriage a civil right. Whites and blacks were unable to marry once. I am saddened that religion is somehow being put forth as a reason to deny me and many others a basic civil liberty. Separation of church and state?

As both a member of the theatrical community ( in the unions) and an audience member, I am disturbed that someone at that level of administration in a CA theatre is opposed to gay rights.

Re: Susan Egan and Mark Shaiman- I am glad they noticed- and cared.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 8:38pm

It will be interesting to see what happens. CMT doesn't audition uniil the spring so there is a chance that this issue will have blown over by then.
Some people are scared of what they don't understand. Think of it this way- Interracial marriage was illegal in 17 states until The US Supreme Court Ruled it was unconstitutional in 1967. 1967! At that time the 51% of the Country was against it. That's only 40 years ago! And now we have a Black President-Elect-a product of Interracial Marriage to boot! If people went to the polls a week ago with the idea that this country really couldn't elect a black man to the highest office in the land, what would have happened? McCain's final message in the last week before the election was one of safety-Obama is friends with terrorists, terrorists will "test" Obama. "Safety" is the second level of Maslow's theory.Maslow's hierarchy of needs didn't come into play last week. Lightning can strike twice.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 9:11pm

Not everyone who is against gay marriage is against it because of religious reasons.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 9:17pm

Really? Because, it seems every argument as at least a tenuous grasp on the god stuff. What other reason is there? Some state amendments not only prohibit gay marriage, but any sort of union that would give gay people the same rights and status as marriage.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 9:19pm

It's on Perez
http://perezhilton.com/2008-11-10-hairspray-composer-shows-us-how-to-stand-against-h8te

Spork Im dying to hear the non-religious based reasons against gay marriage!

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 9:26pm

A copy of the Shaiman email from the Perezhilton article:
http://perezhilton.com/2008-11-10-hairspray-composer-shows-us-how-to-stand-against-h8te


Friends,
This weekend, due to it being public record, I learned that a Mr. Scott Eckerd, Artistic Director, California Musical Theatre (where "HAIRSPRAY" was performed last year, one of our first licensed regional theatre productions) donated $1000 towards YES on Prop. 8

Well, I did what I felt I needed to do, I called him right up. "Hi, it's Marc Shaiman, co-creator of HAIRSPRAY, would you please call me back?" He did. I asked him how a man who makes his life and living working with (and I assume befriending and loving) gay men and women could possibly think we were less entitled to the same basic rights he enjoys. He basically said "it's not a personal thing against people, it's my belief regarding the protection of marriage…etc. (I'm paraphrasing his words, but that is the gist of it).

I then told him the idea that money from his salary that was, in a small way, made from a production of HAIRSPRAY had now been put to use to pass this bigoted Proposition truly hurt and sickened me and that no future project of mine would ever play his theatre.

(Oy, let's hope I have some future projects!)

So, ladies and gentlemen of the-ay-tuh, what can we do? We can picket (our own shows!), deny rights, etc. And I am all for that.

But how can we CHANGE MINDS?

Oscar Hammerstein (what a guy!) wrote "You've Got To Be Taught". That's what gets me. People aren't born with the belief that gays are "sinners", they HAVE TO BE TAUGHT. All of religion is TAUGHT.

As the pie of reality hit me (and so many others) in the face last week about how many people still believe that one sentence from one lovely book "proves" we are an "abomination", (a book that also allows for the stoning of wives or people who wear two different threads of material and don't get that book started on shellfish…) I believe I must now greet every person I meet with "Hello, my name is Marc, God made me gay and I think that THAT and He are both fabulous."

Or maybe "Hi, God made me gay, so please doll, take it up with Him"

I have a gospel station programmed in my car radio, and when it came on yesterday morning, I found myself turning it off due to quotes I've read these last few days. For me personally, there is nothing more gut-wrenchingly sad to me than that moment. I joyfully bypass talk radio, I enjoyed muting the TV when Sarah Palin came on or changing the channel anytime Bush appears, but TURNING OFF GOSPEL MUSIC? It was then that I truly realized I have got to do something to start changing minds because people, I AM NOT GIVING UP GOSPEL MUSIC!!

I'm blabbering now, and to people I have great respect for, so, what am I trying to say here?

Please contact Mr. Scott Eckerd, Artistic Director, California Musical Theatre

http://www.californiamusicaltheatre.com/index.cfm?page=572414

and ask him why he thinks I (and maybe you) am less a person than he. I don't want to attempt to affect the livelihood of folks who work at this particular theatre (as if that was in my power) but we have GOT to stop sitting back and accepting this bigotry, particularly from people in our own field.

No more apathy! I believe we all thought there was NO WAY discrimination could actually be written into the constitution, but WE WERE WRONG. And what the hell (pardon the pun) happened to the separation of church and state??

Today I will read my morning paper, and take a plane to New York and do many other things that people who believe as Mr. Eckerd will profit from it and I can't YET figure out how to live an entire life without inadvertently supporting folks like that, but for the love of God (pardon the pun), can we all start putting our money where our mouths are??!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 9:30pm

I believe we all thought there was NO WAY discrimination could actually be written into the constitution, but WE WERE WRONG.

Sure, it's not like those twenty-odd states that already did it matter.

[boombaboy]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 9:43pm

Responding to Liza + Jesus

"you people"?!? I smell internalized homophobia, dear. This is not "us people" getting our panties in a twist, this is a fight for civil rights, something you seem to think others should be doing for you. "I'm all for gay rights." Sure you are, as long as you don't have to break a sweat, and then have the nerve to bitch about the people that do the work. Get a clue.

Updated On: 11/10/08 at 09:43 PM

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 9:59pm

for all prop 8 supporters-take 6 1/2 minutes to watch this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27652443#27652443

[massofmen]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 10:19pm

Oh Lord. OLBERMANN!? really? it's the oreilly of the left. I am so darn sick of newscasters not reporting the independent news. It's like all of these news shows have to have some announcer who is LEANING SO Far to one side the boat should tip over.
MSNBC is like air america on tv
while fox news is limbaugh land. Neither can be trusted or listened to. NPR and the BBC are the only ones left. (no pun intended)

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 10:30pm

Massofmen-Olbermann makes no bones about the fact that he states his own beliefs on his show. Besides stating the obvious-that he is a Liberal-why don't you address what he said in his commentary?

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 10:39pm

Before I give the general reasons, let me state once again that I do not buy into any of these reasons myself. So please don't expect me to argue for them.

- A lot of people think that the very foundation of civilization is marriage between a man and a woman. Even the Romans, who were perfectly fine with homosexuality, did not legalize homosexual marriages.
- Many feel that the government needs to stay out of marriage, period.
- Slippery slope argument: if being able to marry anyone you want is a right, where does it stop?
- Again, the idea that marriage to anyone you want is not a right
- (Remember that these people tend to feel that homosexuality is a choice) Everyone has the same right: if you are a man, to marry a woman, and a woman, to marry a man

I never said that they're good reasons and you may find holes in them, just as I did. However, for many it's a more complicated issue than just close-minded homophobes oppressing people for fear God will smite their city if they legalize gay marriage.

[Liza + Jesus = Patti]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 11:04pm

this is true Spork.

Another reason:


The rights of Children: Children, society’s most voiceless and vulnerable group, have rights that should be defended. Consider the following quotes from a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT in favor of prop 8:

"Marriage is a gift that society bestows on its next generation. Marriage (and only marriage) unites the three core dimensions of parenthood — biological, social and legal — into one pro-child form: the married couple. Marriage says to a child: The man and the woman whose sexual union made you will also be there to love and raise you. Marriage says to society as a whole: For every child born, there is a recognized mother and a father, accountable to the child and to each other.
Marriage is society’s most pro-child institution. In 2002 — just moments before it became highly unfashionable to say so — a team of researchers from Child Trends, a nonpartisan research center, reported that “family structure clearly matters for children, and the family structure that helps children the most is a family headed by two biological parents in a low-conflict marriage.”
For these reasons, children have the right, insofar as society can make it possible, to know and to be cared for by the two parents who brought them into this world. This human right, concerning children, protects those who are typically society’s most voiceless and vulnerable group.

Do you think that every child deserves his mother and father, with adoption available for those children whose natural parents cannot care for them? Do you suspect that fathers and mothers are different from one another? Do you imagine that biological ties matter to children? In making the case for same-sex marriage, more than a few grown-ups will be quite willing to question your integrity and goodwill. Children, of course, are rarely consulted.

I believe with all my heart in the right of the child to the mother and father who made her, I believe that we as a society should seek to maintain and to strengthen the only human institution — marriage — that is specifically intended to safeguard that right and make it real for our children."

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 11:07pm

Consider the following quotes from a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT in favor of prop 8

...without any attribution...

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 11:11pm

If we're going to look the Romans for things, then I'm gonna suggest we start hurling a few Christians to the lions.

I wish the government WOULD stay out of marriage, but that we require all civil marriages to be dissolved.

It stops at one person being able to marry another person. Unless the Mormons decide to go back to polygamy.

And the last two don't even warrant comment.

[Liza + Jesus = Patti]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 11:14pm

"...without any attribution..."

here you go, Lizzie.


http://whatistheharm.org/story/2008/10/13/9312/0551

[Dre2387]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 11:27pm

don't provoke Liza+Jesus=Patti.

it will get you know where.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 11:33pm

it will get you know where.

LOL

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/10/08 at 11:39pm

Here's tip-off from that "liberal Democrat" (ahem, ahem) website:

read the complete story at mormontimes.com

Yeah. Sure I will.