Will Esparza win for the Homecoming.- Page 3

[DG]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 11:11am

"having trouble seeing what is so offensive about it"

Really? I can see coming away with the intent of what he's saying and feeling ok with it - BUT, his presentation of the idea REEKS of sanctimoniousness and narcissism. I tend to think it takes a bit of an ego to really ply this trade, but he could dial it down a notch - or three - especially in his public persona.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 11:25am

I'm not going to go into some potentially emotional defense of the guy, because nobody wants to hear that. Nor do I feel like giving it. But.

If the New York Times article was to be a manipulation of Tony voters, don't you think it would have happened, you know, around Tony season? Publicity, yes. I still do not believe it was a cold, hard, publicity stunt, but it was publicity; that's what a press agent's job is to create.

Heh, and yeah, I don't think Chitty closing was really an event that big shots in the theater community made sure to be present for.

(I think I'll post this disclaimer before I'm accused of thinking he's perfect and can do no wrong, rather than wait for it to happen and then refute it. Because it's bound to happen. I respect Raúl because I think he is a remarkable talent, and he has moved me very, very much with his work. [And isn't that, in the end, what it's really about? Isn't that an artist's job?] And he has been very, very kind to me. But I know he can have an unsightly ego at times. And I know that he's not everyone's favorite, personally, in the community, and that he can be difficult. That he can get bored enough on stage to totally ruin a moment just for a laugh. But there are two stories to every truth and that's not all he is; because if it were, nobody would like him. So please, eat your proverbial hats before you throw the stupid fangirl label on me just for saying something in his defense.)

Updated On: 6/8/08 at 11:25 AM

[The White Half-Mask]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 1:19pm

I'm kinda torn in terms of how I feel about this. Half of me wants him to win as a "consolation prize" for last year. Like many other members here, I was absolutely shocked when he lost, so I want him to win this time to "make up" last year's loss.

But on the other hand, as several other posters have pointed out, this year's Tony Awards are to celebrate THIS year's performances, & it would not be fair to the other nominees if Esparza won because of something that happened a year ago.

Basically, if he wins, I'll be very happy for him. But if he loses, I'll understand. I won't be too upset this time, unlike last year. I'm sure that Esparza will win a Tony Award somewhere along his career.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 3:06pm

First, I admire your memorization skills. That was amazing.

Yeah well, it was so jaw-dropping that I couldn't help but obsess over it for the past two and a half years.

The man is human and I'm not saying he's a bad guy. My point was to refute the notion that he is so "well liked" that his personality would help his tony chances

I understood that and agree, but I felt some of the points you made were kind of petty with regards to the perception of the entire community. I didn't want to refute your argument so much as suggest that the people who actively dislike him enough to thwart his Tony chances hopefully have more legitimate reasons than "Two years ago, he made a cocky speech."

[elphiesmagic]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 3:29pm

luvtheemcee, you don't want to be labeled a fangirl yet you say your heart "absolutely broke" when your favorite actor didn't win a performance award - all of which are subjective, and based on so much more than performance anyway.

If an award is that important to a performer that even their own heart breaks because they didn't get some kind of award for a performance, then they are in the business for the wrong reasons.

Perspective is very important in life.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 4:41pm

Emcee's comment about not wanting to be written off as just a fangirl was probably because far too often people on this board use the easy comeback "You only want him to win because you're his FAN!", as though being a fan of an actor's career divorces you from any objective opinion. I don't think she ever expressed that Raul's heart broke or that her personal response is a reflection for what Raul should have felt.

Perspective is important, but so is reading comprehension.

[elphiesmagic]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 4:44pm

"I don't think she ever expressed that Raul's heart broke or that her personal response is a reflection for what Raul should have felt."

Neither of which is what I said. If a fan admits to feeling even more than a performer would feel at that moment, then they can't be expected to not be thought of as a "fangirl".

[BrianS]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 4:56pm

orangeskittles, you quoted me accurately and then made it sound like I was saying something else. I have seen him be very gracious to people I know. I have heard some not so nice stories. My only point was that he isn't like a Harvey or a Julie Andrews where people's affection for them may help tip them to a nomination or a win. I even said that he was human and not a bad guy.

Of course, the chitty speech wasn't the worst thing ever. Some people were fine with it. Others felt that it was disparaging to the creative team, the producers, and the show that helped pay his rent for a little while. Other producers, creative teams, or tony voters wouldn't "hold a grudge," but it would be just one of the public examples that may color people's perception of him. When I heard what he said I thought it was in bad taste since he knew the kind of show he was signing up for, but it's hardly the one thing I think about (cause I have both positive and negative things to go off of) to shape my opinion of him. If you are in this industry, you know there are some tempestuous examples that could make my point, but they are backstage, not onstage or in the press, examples and I won't talk about that stuff on these boards.

Again, the only point I was trying to make was to refute the notion that he is so beloved that they are trying to find a way to get him a tony to make up for last year.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 5:44pm

Neither of which is what I said. If a fan admits to feeling even more than a performer would feel at that moment, then they can't be expected to not be thought of as a "fangirl".

You're taking sentiments expressed in two different posts on completely separate topics and throwing them together to draw a conclusion. The fangirl comment was with regards to the tangent discussion on BrianS's post, not about her feelings towards the Tonys. She didn't say she wasn't a fangirl, she said not to write off her comment about Raul's likability as a stupid fangirl defense instead of a legitimate perspective.


orangeskittles, you quoted me accurately and then made it sound like I was saying something else.

That wasn't my intention. I agree with your overall opinion, I only wanted to explain why I responded to your post. I just found it odd that of all the reasons, those were the examples you chose to make your argument. That's it.

Updated On: 6/8/08 at 05:44 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/8/08 at 7:05pm

elphiesmagic, orangeskittles already said more or less what I would have in response. The only things I want to add are that, firstly, this business about "admitting" to feeling more than the performer did is so out of left field. When did I even imply that? I never admitted to feeling more than he did, because I don't know how he felt save for whatever he's put out publicly -- and likely neither do you. How can you accuse me of feeling more than the performer did without that information? You completely misinterpreted and misrepresented my comment. It had nothing to do with how he felt. And if it had nothing to do with how he felt, how you can claim I made some sort of "admission" is beyond me. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Secondly, yes, I did find his loss last year very sad. The explanation is simple: his performance in Company moved me very much, for any of a million reasons that I'm not going to go into. And when a performance or a work of art connects with you or resonates with you or whatever, I think it's only natural to want to see that recognized, no? It's not a matter of needing perspective in life; it's a matter linked to one of the simplest facts of the purpose of art.

Trust me, if I wanted to try and hide that I was a fan, I wouldn't have made such a statement in the first place. As orangeskittles said, I have no problem admitting my biases. I have no problem being regarded as a fan. I just don't want to be discounted for that because of the way I acted when I joined this board at seventeen, consumed by blind adoration, or something. I don't think there's anything unfair about that. Teenaged fangirls grow up. And shockingly, they gain perspective.

On a separate note:

My only point was that he isn't like a Harvey or a Julie Andrews where people's affection for them may help tip them to a nomination or a win. I even said that he was human and not a bad guy.

Now that you've clarified, agreed. I think that's fair to say.

Again, the only point I was trying to make was to refute the notion that he is so beloved that they are trying to find a way to get him a tony to make up for last year.

I think the only thing that stands to be "made up for" is artistic, not personal. But like you said, I think it's naive to assume there's a lot of personal motivation the way there might be for someone like Julie Andrews or Harvey Fierstein.

Updated On: 6/8/08 at 07:05 PM