Threepenny Opera questions

[dfwtheatreguy]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 6:12am

I'm fairly familiar with "Threepenny" (just got the LP of the NYSF version with Raul Julia off ebay!) but have some questions:

1) "Pirate Jenny" - I have seen a couple of versions where Polly sings it during the Wedding scene and others where Jenny sings it in Act 2 before the Tango with Mack - which is correct, which is more common? I dont like Polly singing it, she gets to show her sinister side with "Barbara Song".

3) "Ballad of Mack the Knife" - in different versions it is presented first by the Street Singer, but also some versions have Jenny sing it (in place of "Pirate Jenny" when Polly sings it earlier) - which is preferable? I like Jenny singing it, gives her character more of a presence, but I dont like sacrificing "Pirate Jenny" for it.

2) modern versions - what are the overall thoughts on putting it into a modern setting? I like the Donmar version, but dont know if the visuals detracted too much. And the recent Bway revival looked interesting (from pics) but dont know how the translation worked?

3) film versions - obviously the 1931 German black and white is great, but is the 1990 "Mack the Knife" worth watching?

4) is the Alan Cumming, Cyndi Lauper version ever going to be commercially released on CD? I would be very interested in hearing how Wallace Shawn brought a new interpretation to the lyrics. From what I gather, Scott Ellis sort of messed up the show, but if anyone has the vocals for download I would be VERY interested.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 6:57am

Scott Elliot, not Ellis.

The difference is that one is a capable director, the other isn't.

[nexttoelectric]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 7:10am

one of them still ****ed up threepenny.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 10:51am

1) It was originally written for Polly and Lenya sang it as Polly in the original production. It is more "correct" for Polly to sing it in the weddding scene, although you see Jenny singing it from time to time (like the 1954 version) and in "Mack the Knife.:

3) The only time I've ever seen this for Jenny (and sung later in the show) was in the Donmar production.

2) Was the Broadway revival a modern setting? I think it's generally best to leave it as is (which even then was sort of the 18th century by way of the 30s by way of whatever era it is actually being produced). If there are parallels to be drawn to the current era, the audience should be able to figure it out.

3) "Great" is relative. The 1931 version cuts a LOT of music and revamps a lot of the plot, but it's an interesting curio, not only for the show itself, but to take a look at the way movies were being made back then. There's also a French version that was shot on the same time on the same sets.

"Mack the Knife" isn't a great movie by any stretch, but I find it awfully enjoyable. Raul Julia is great, as is Julia Migenes. It's totally ridiculous at points, but I think it gets a bad rap.

4) I don't think the revival was recorded legally, so a release is not possible.
Updated On: 2/26/09 at 10:51 AM

[MrSweetNAwful]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 1:36pm

I like Polly singing Pirate Jenny. Well, really I'm just used to her singing it. I saw the Roundabout revival and Nellie McKay was just wonderful.

I know in the Roundabout revival Jenny sang Mack the Knife at the beginning, in the Donmar revival she sang it in Act Two.

Unfortunately The Roundabout production never got recorded. It's the one album I wish I had more than anything. I loved the show. I guess it might've been messed up by Elliot, but I can't believe the chance went by to preserve a new adaptation performed by a supercast: Alan, Nellie, Ana, Jim and Cyndi (as well as Brian Charles Rooney singing legit soprano!)

[Jon]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 2:07pm

If you're following the script literally, the time period is the late 19th Century - since they mention celebrating Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee (50 years on the throne).

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 3:48pm

Jon's right. Scratch what I said about 18th century.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 7:08pm

"1) It was originally written for Polly and Lenya sang it as Polly in the original production."

Well, correct, but a little misleading in one respect. Lenya played Jenny when the original production opened. I think she may have later moved into the role of Polly, but I'd have to check on that, I'm not positive. Or did she move into the role of Lucy? Maybe it was Lucy.

In the first film version, the song was given to Jenny (played by Lenya). Lenya had also made one of the first recordings of the song, maybe the very first. She became so famous for singing it that she pretty much had to do it in the Theatre de Lys production if she was going to be in it.

Of course, that production also gave the "Barbara Song" to Lucy, while interpolating "The Bide-a-Wee in Soho" (an adaptation of the "Bilbao Song" from Happy End) for Polly to sing in the wedding scene.

[dfwtheatreguy]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 7:47pm

And what about the out-of-town production with Betty Buckley and Jesse L. Martin - was that more successful than the recent Broadway revival?

What are your thoughts on interpolating other Weill songs (i.e. Bilbao Song, Surabaya Johnny, or even September Song) into a production of 3PO?

[dfwtheatreguy]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 7:47pm

oh, and Lenya at one time played Polly? Hmmmm, interesting....not something I can easily visualize.

Updated On: 2/26/09 at 07:47 PM

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 7:58pm

I'm not sure that she played Polly (as I wrote). I think it may be that she later played Lucy rather than Polly. The more I think about it, the more I think it was Lucy.

At one time there was a long, very interesting thread here on Threepenny recordings, but I think it got lost in the crash. There are couple of shorter ones still here, not as interesting.
Updated On: 2/26/09 at 07:58 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 8:07pm

I stand corrected. Thanks, nobodyhome. For some reason I thought because she sang Pirate Jenny on this recording that she played Polly. Or something. I'm really not sure HOW I got that in my head.

[nexttoelectric]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 8:08pm

The mind is the first thing to go Kringas.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 8:09pm

At least I still have my looks.
Lenya with a super high voice in 1931

[MrSweetNAwful]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 8:11pm

The Barbara/Bilbao mix in the Theatre de Lys version sounds nutty.

I don't really think songs should be shuffled around or interpolated. The show is great the way it was originally written...cept I still like Polly singing Pirate Jenny, it's gives the character a bit more edge.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 8:14pm

I don't really think songs should be shuffled around or interpolated.

Then don't EVER see a broadway revival of, well, anything!

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 8:32pm

"The show is great the way it was originally written...cept I still like Polly singing Pirate Jenny, it's gives the character a bit more edge."

And that's the way it was originally written.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 8:37pm

"If you're following the script literally, the time period is the late 19th Century - since they mention celebrating Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee (50 years on the throne)."

Oops, I missed this when I first looked at thread. It's set at the time of Victoria's coronation: 1837.

[MrSweetNAwful]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 10:21pm

ack, sorry, this thread's making the "who sings Pirate Jenny" thing kinda confusing.

[dfwtheatreguy]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 10:25pm

Okay, I agree that having Polly sing "Pirate Jenny" gives her an edge - puts her on the same moral footing as Mac's gang - but dont you also get that when she sings "Barbara Song"?

And why is it "Pirate JENNY" and not "Pirate POLLY"?

It gives Jenny's character more meat and depth, it gives us our first look at her as someone who would definitely do anything to earn a buck (even turn in Macheath).

I like what Williamstown did - they gave each of the 4 main females at least one good solid song. Polly gets "Surabaya Johnny" in Act 1, Mrs. P gets her traditional "Ballad of Sexual Dependency", Lucy gets "Barbara Song", and Jenny has "Pirate Jenny" (and "Solomon Song").

And how were the songs titled? "Barbara Song" and "Pirate Jenny" for characters not with those names???

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 10:47pm

Because when Polly sings it, she's not singing about herself, nor is she singing it about Mack's Jenny.

[MrSweetNAwful]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 10:54pm

Barbara Song is a little naughty, but when I hear it just imagine every other teenage girl who's into bad boys. Pirate Jenny is more wicked, and she's singing about Jenny. From what I remember when I saw the 06 production she entertained the gang by singing a song about a barmaid she once saw who turns out to be Jenny.

Surabaya Johnny actually sounds like an interpolation that could work really well. [edit] Though it is the signature song of Happy End.

Updated On: 2/27/09 at 10:54 PM

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 11:17pm

Sometimes (or perhaps most of the time) Polly sings both "Pirate Jenny" and "Barbara Song" (and I would like to know why it is called that too!)

We did it at UNT...I was Filch...and our Jenny sang "Pirate Jenny" during the wedding scene...there was a "freeze" and she walked on, sang it and left. We did the 1994 Domnar Version and the score actually had the street singer sing "Mack the Knife" at the beginning...so I am not sure why their Jenny sang it when she did.
Also, our "Socrates Song" was sung by Lucy after the Polly/Lucy Scene in Lucy's Room.

[A Director]

Posted: 2/26/09 at 11:44pm

Lotte Lenya never played Polly in any production of Threepenny.

As it has been mentioned, "Pirate Jenny" was written to be song by Polly. It's been awhile since I saw the 1931 movie, but I seem to recall Lenya singing the song. The first time the song was sung by Polly in a New York production was in 1989.

I think it is a foolish idea to interpolate Surabaya Johnny into Threepenny. The song was written for Happy End. Would you include a song from The King and I in The Sound of Music or a song from Company in Into The Woods?

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 2/27/09 at 12:03am

Lenya definitely sings "Pirate Jenny" (or "Seeräuber Jenny") in the Pabst film.

Personally, given the circumstances under which she sings it, I don't think giving Polly "Pirate Jenny" necessarily gives her a harder edge. If anything, it might sort of do the opposite.

"As it has been mentioned, 'Pirate Jenny' was written to be song by Polly. It's been awhile since I saw the 1931 movie, but I seem to recall Lenya singing the song. The first time the song was sung by Polly in a New York production was in 1989."

According to the song list on ibdb, Polly sang it in the first New York production. And I wouldn't be surprised if she sang it in some earlier production before the Dexter productions, some Off-Off Broadway productions.