Thoroughly Modern Millie -- Casting Non-Asians

[Patash]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 8:48am

Has anyone seen Ching Ho and Bun Foo played by Caucasians? Did it really work? It seems that since Mrs. Meers is "pretending" to be Asian, having two white guys pretending to be Asian also just calls attention to itself. The question comes up in our play selection as we really have NO Asian male actors -- especially who can also sing and dance.

[COOOOLkid]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 9:10am

It will certainly raise the audience's eyebrows.

[cfmiller]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 10:04am

Seen it done before. No one I know raised an eyebrow, but I guess it depends on how you feel about color blind casting.

[rich.hanson59]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 10:13am

In my HS production both were played by white actors. I think it added to the production, because it was so funny.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 10:48am

I'm not Asian, so I can't speak to any possible offense that might be taken.

But I've always thought that part of the joke was that they were Asian and she wasn't.

[Patash]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 10:58am

Exactly, Reginald. That was my point. If the joke is that Mrs. Meers is pretending to be Asian, doesn't it kind of kill the whole point if the two guys are also (to the audience) white guys trying to play Asian?
I don't think this is an example of "color blind" casting -- as the two guys would simply HAVE TO BE played as if they were Chinese. I think of color blind casting as not playing up the race of the character.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 10:59am

I think you're right. You just end up with three oddly deluded (and strangely dressed) people.

[deck925]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 11:09am

I just finished a production of Millie, neither of our actors playing Ching Ho and Bun Foo were asian. I understand it does add to the joke, but if you have the actors to do it the do so. Are all the people Siamese in high school productions of the King and I?

[AvenueQResident]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 11:17am

The Youth theatre production I saw, they were played by two Caucasians. It didn't bother me or the audience in the slightest, as they were loving their double-act.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 11:24am

I understand it does add to the joke, but if you have the actors to do it

So don't do the show.

Would you do Ragtime if your school had no black students?

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 11:29am

When my school did it, we did it with two non-Asians.

Yeah it's not what the show calls for, but one of them was quite large, which added to the hysterics. They learned the language and it was still very funny.

Updated On: 8/8/08 at 11:29 AM

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 11:31am

I think the danger is that it can become the wrong kind of joke.

[eatlasagna]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 11:33am

ugh... i hate this... why don't you guys just do Miss Saigon and cast Kim by a white girl... or do Flower Drum Song with an all white cast... i get that it's high school but what's the deal with schools doing shows they know they can't cast just so their white students get to perform a role... God forbid an asian or any minority wants to play a generally performed white role because that would cause an uproar.... whatever.. i guess it is what it is...

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 11:43am

There's absolutely nothing wrong with color-blind casting; it's admirable.

The problem in this particular instance is that the characters are already dangerously close to what Alec Mapa calls a "ching-chong" kind of joke.

To cast white actors in yellow face pushes it dangerously close to offensive territory.

[Hest882]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 11:59am

"To cast white actors in yellow face pushes it dangerously close to offensive territory."

Okay, with this phrase you've just convinced me. I couldn't imagine someone casting a white guy in a black role where ethnicity is an intrinsic aspect of the character.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 1:11pm

For some reason, racial humor about Asians is still often accepted today when the same types of jokes about any other ethnic group is frowned on. Maybe it's because they don't whine as much about it. Or maybe it's because they don't care because they know they will own the planet in fifty years, anyway. In any event, I was a white Ching Ho. To the wrong people, my performance probably would have seemed offensive, but I feel like it fit in with the rest of the show, making fun of the stereotypes of the time. It was fun and people loved the characters and weren't confused. They liked seeing these kids they knew doing something so outrageous, speaking in a different language that they had to learn, etc. The laughs would not have been as good if we had genuine Asians. It goes without saying that in a high school show, the audience of friends and parents isn't really looking for the same thing an audience at a professional show would have.
Updated On: 8/8/08 at 01:11 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 1:23pm

Do you mean that part of TMM wasn't already offensive?

I'm sincerely asking because I'm not Asian, but I always was rather bothered by it.

[Jon]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 1:45pm

My favorite is when all-white high schools to The Wiz and Once on This Island.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 2:01pm

Hahaha, my VERY white Catholic high school did The Wiz twice.

[Patash]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 3:44pm

Just for the record, but I'm not sure it makes any difference, this is community/regional theatre, and not high school. No paid actors, however, which prohibits bringing in two people to play the roles.

For those who are comparing this situation to an all Caucasian production of The King and I or Miss Saigon, I think you're missing the main point which I expressed in my original post.

[Patash]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 3:45pm

Sorry -- triple post. What's wrong with this site today, or is just me?
Updated On: 8/8/08 at 03:45 PM

[Patash]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 3:46pm

And yet again. Sorry. Updated On: 8/8/08 at 03:46 PM

[LuPonatic]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 4:05pm

I think there is a big difference here between Thoroughly Modern Millie and say Ragtime. Millie is VERY accessible to High School and community theatres, because of the numerous female roles. The two Asian characters are side characters. In Ragtime, the central theme of the entire show is ethnic equality, which means there would be no show. Same with Hairspray. I would never dream of doing Hairspray without some African Americans. Millie, however, I would totally do.

[deck925]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 4:29pm

I don't really feel as though the King and I is a moot point. If high schools/community theaters can do a show where the vast majority of the cast is suppossed to be Siamese, what is the problem with two characters? It's not as though Ching Ho and Bun Foo are the central focus of the show. As another poster stated it is a great show for girls, if you have the people I don't see why you shouldn't do it. We had great success with white actors as Ching Ho and Bun Foo.

[Patash]

Posted: 8/8/08 at 6:42pm

deck, do you really not get the idea that in Millie, Mrs. Meers is SUPPOSED to be a Caucasian who dresses (disguises) herself as Chinese. If the two guys are also Caucasians disguising themselves as Chinese -- it sort of defeats the entire point of that contrast.
Accepting an entire cast or half a cast as being actors pretending to be a different race is easier and less problematic than having the audience understand that one white character is supposed to be white but pretending to be Chinese and NOT think that the two guys with her who are also white and are also clearly pretending to be Chinese, really aren't supposed to be pretending -- they really are Chinese. How do you make the audience "get" the difference? If the audience accepts the two guys as being Chinese, why wouldn't they also assume that Mrs. Meers really is Chinese too? Get it?