Casting without ethnic profiling

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 7:52am

Yesterday I had a casting meeting for a production of The Lion King in a country in Europe. The country has laws for child protection and therefore a child can only perform 12 professional performances a year. This has been the case for many years and therefore when a show involves children, we need to find many children for each role, and use elaborate planning for shifts etc (including stand-by's). This has always worked out fine, for the children in Tarzan, Mary Poppins, etc.

Now, for the Lion King, we were specifically looking for ethnic children, preferably black as the actor who plays the adult Simba is black too. A small percentage of the population is black and we simply can not find enough kids, black and talented enough to play the role. We have a few, but not enough.

The only option is to cast white kids too. If not, we don't have enough kids so we would have to cancel the show.

Now, we live by the idea that any race can play any role, so we have thought about casting a lighter Simba, but then we thought, why would we? Especially because they play animals, so race does not matter at all in the first place, and why should we cast on race at all.

The thing is that the transition between the younger and older Simba needs to make sense. So what is the best option? Casting a white older simba when a white kid goes on or casting white kids and use make up to make them look more like older Simba.

We tend to go for the second option. We truly believe that anyone can play anything and therefore we choose not to deliberately cast on race, but just change theatrical possibilities. Work chances above ego. Now, we live in a country where we believe that letting go of the differences and not focusing on them constantly actually creates unity. Also, people would see the possibilities and the whole show creates fantastic work chances for everyone. It just needs to make sense. A younger character has to resemble his older counterpart.

Of course we live in a country that focuses much less on racial differences, but I was wondering what Americans on this board think of this situation.

 

 

Updated On: 6/10/16 at 07:52 AM

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 8:29am

"... or casting white kids and use make up to make them look more like older Simba."

You mean brown-face?

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:14am

Dave19 said: "Now, we live by the idea that any race can play any role, so we have thought about casting a lighter Simba, but then we thought, why would we? Especially because they play animals, so race does not matter at all in the first place, and why should we cast on race at all...Now, we live in a country where we believe that letting go of the differences and not focusing on them constantly actually creates unity...Of course we live in a country that focuses much less on racial differences, but I was wondering what Americans on this board think of this situation."

in all the time I've spent on this board, each time you post I have always wondered why your views on race seem so completely tasteless, vulgar and inappropriate. I now see that you are living in some kind of fantasy world where you believe any race can play any race. Having white-skinned children wear makeup that allows them to appear darker is so vile and upsetting that I can't even believe you'd think it to be a viable artistic option. I didn't know before now you're from Europe, exactly what European nation are you from? I've always heard they're supposed to be enlightened over there but you are an example of the complete opposite.

did you ever see movies from the 40's and 50's where white peoples are made up to look like native Americans and Asian? people might not have found it offensive then but it definitely is offensive now (I recently watched The Seven Year Itch and thought that modern editors should cut the opening scene where many white men are dressed and made up to look Native). the fact that they play animals in The Lion King is immaterial to the fact that the show takes place in Africa (I have issue with the actors playing Timon and Pumba being white, but maybe they're supposed to be like outsiders?) Do not paint a white child and make them look black. that is terrible. 

Updated On: 6/10/16 at 09:14 AM

[oncemorewithfeeling2]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:32am

Many, many, many shows have cast child versions of characters in a different race then the adult actor and no one says anything. 

Making a white child "look black" is putting someone in blackface. That is not acceptable by any credible theater organization or union.

Part of theater is suspending disbelief...I know lions and warthogs don't sing and dance. I also understand versions of actors may not look similar to each other AND THAT'S OKAY.

This situation arises all the time in productions of Les Mis. They do just fine.

[Petrichor]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:34am

gypsy101 said: "the fact that they play animals in The Lion King is immaterial to the fact that the show takes place in Africa (I have issue with the actors playing Timon and Pumba being white, but maybe they're supposed to be like outsiders?) Do not paint a white child and make them look black. that is terrible. 

 

"

Not that it's important, but meerkats and warthogs are African animals, so even then it would be odd for their characters to be outsiders haha. Therefore, it should be more of an issue that the actors playing them, or any character in this show, would be white. 

 

To the OP, your last paragraph is severely disheartening. Just because you believe anyone can play any role, doesn't mean anyone should be playing any role. If you truly believe you have stretched all your options and cannot find black children to play the role, I would rather the show be cancelled than to commit such a downright racist act like painting a white child to depict a black child. That is the best option, and perhaps in the future the show can go on when you have searched far and wide for actors.

 

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:35am

"Lions and warthogs don't sing and dance?

Another bubble has been burst. What next - there is no Santa Claus?

Updated On: 6/10/16 at 09:35 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 10:27am

I

Can't 

Even.

 

For someone that doesn't "see" race, you certainly talk about it an awful lot.   

[Kad]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 10:31am

This is pretty much all Dave19 does, and the outcome is pretty much always the same.

[sparepart973]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 10:35am

I'm not sure I'm believing this is legit.

Lion King is such a huge franchise, and has been replicated in so many different markets across the world. I'm sure that is a strict policy when it comes to casting these characters. Since casting and ethnicity is such a huge deal with this specific production, I'm sure the producers would have had to do a casting feasibility study where they'd survey available talent that matches the ethnicity they are looking for. 

 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 10:57am

There is a rider (not sure if that's the correct word OR spelling) with the permissions on this show that a certain percentage MUST be people of color....I believe it is specified to be those of African descent.  (not sure of the actual wording.)   I don't think it states specific roles, but I am not sure of this as well.

[darquegk]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 11:04am

Is that rider just for this current production, or will it carry over when MTI licenses the show eventually?

[sparepart973]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 11:09am

dramamama611 said: "There is a rider (not sure if that's the correct word OR spelling) with the permissions on this show that a certain percentage MUST be people of color....I believe it is specified to be those of African descent.  (not sure of the actual wording.)   I don't think it states specific roles, but I am not sure of this as well.

 

"

From what I've seen casting is not flexible for any lion characters, specifically the Royal Family, Nala and her family, etc but it seems pretty open when it comes to other animals especially Simba's sidekicks. Except if memory serves me, the only children in the show are Simba and Nala. 

[theatreguy12]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:22pm

Yet another bubble burst, I fear.  

My former violin teacher is from Poland, and according to her there is a huge amount of intolerance in Europe.  Something she noted firsthand in her travels around Europe as a performer.  

In addition, a black friend of mine has been to soccer games in Europe and has noted certain types of treatment of black players when they enter the field.

I know Americans from the USA love to go on apology tours for our history, and for the racism that, yes, still does exist here even today. No one denies that.

But to think that Europeans are somehow so much further evolved and enlightened in this particular area of discussion is not valid, nor is it true.  So apologizing to them for our sins, while not understanding they have their own similar sins in that same area seems a little out of touch.

Unfortunately we're all human beings. And that's why we are the way we are.  We all carry sin within us. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where we're from.

There are indeed many enlightened Europeans. And yes, enlightened Americans here in the USA,  There are intolerant Europeans.  And there are intolerant Americans here in the USA. There are compassionate Europeans. And there are compassionate Americans here in the USA. There are racist Europeans.  And there are racist residents of the USA.

Why? Because we're human beings.

One thing my teacher also noted was how amazed she was that in her ten years of being here that people get along as well as they do considering the diversity.  And as she notes the diversity is much more varied here than it is in a lot of European countries.

I understand that a lot of people have "heard" how enlightened Europe is, but when you go there you see they are no different than we are.  I've been to Europe myself multiple times, and have visited almost every country.  And yes, there are some very nice people.  And there are also those who are not tolerant or respectful as well.   While the term "ugly American" floats around quite a bit, you sure see how much that rings true for other as well.  You could almost plug in any nationality to that unfortunately.

Because we're human beings.

gypsy101 said: "Dave19 said: "Now, we live by the idea that any race can play any role, so we have thought about casting a lighter Simba, but then we thought, why would we? Especially because they play animals, so race does not matter at all in the first place, and why should we cast on race at all...Now, we live in a country where we believe that letting go of the differences and not focusing on them constantly actually creates unity...Of course we live in a country that focuses much less on racial differences, but I was wondering what Americans on this board think of this situation."

in all the time I've spent on this board, each time you post I have always wondered why your views on race seem so completely tasteless, vulgar and inappropriate. I now see that you are living in some kind of fantasy world where you believe any race can play any race. Having white-skinned children wear makeup that allows them to appear darker is so vile and upsetting that I can't even believe you'd think it to be a viable artistic option. I didn't know before now you're from Europe, exactly what European nation are you from? I've always heard they're supposed to be enlightened over there but you are an example of the complete opposite.

did you ever see movies from the 40's and 50's where white peoples are made up to look like native Americans and Asian? people might not have found it offensive then but it definitely is offensive now (I recently watched The Seven Year Itch and thought that modern editors should cut the opening scene where many white men are dressed and made up to look Native). the fact that they play animals in The Lion King is immaterial to the fact that the show takes place in Africa (I have issue with the actors playing Timon and Pumba being white, but maybe they're supposed to be like outsiders?) Do not paint a white child and make them look black. that is terrible. 

 

"

 

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:25pm

Alexander Lamar said: ""... or casting white kids and use make up to make them look more like older Simba."

You mean brown-face?

 

"

Actually lions are yellow.

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:30pm

Petrichor said: " and cannot find black children to play the role, I would rather the show be cancelled than to commit such a downright racist act like painting a white child to depict a black child."

 

And put the many black actors that are cast out of work?

Then what is it about for you? 

 

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:31pm

Finally confirmation that Dave19 is a total troll. If this would real and he posted here, Disney would have his ass fried. 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:34pm

I think the problem is your focusing on the race, which this show doesn't need. They're playing lions. It doesn't matter if Simba is Chinese. At least, it shouldn't matter. I think a mixed-race Lion King would be great. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:44pm

I don't believe this is for a professional production. This is for then lion king JR show.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:48pm

Also does the lion king productions in Japan and Mexico use black actors. If finding a black child is really hard then hire white children too, just don't use brown face.

[perfectlymarvelous]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 9:50pm

Dave19 said: "Alexander Lamar said: ""... or casting white kids and use make up to make them look more like older Simba."

You mean brown-face?

 

"

Actually lions are yellow.

 

"

Delete your account.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 10:32pm

dramamama611 said: "There is a rider (not sure if that's the correct word OR spelling) with the permissions on this show that a certain percentage MUST be people of color....I believe it is specified to be those of African descent.  (not sure of the actual wording.)   I don't think it states specific roles, but I am not sure of this as well."

 

Adam Jacobs has played Simba in the Broadway company, so they are open to having actors who are not African or African-American play the role here in North America. (That of course doesn't mean that they are open to casting a Caucasian actor in the role, of course).

[SNAFU]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 10:33pm

Simba's make up is a red neck and shoulder yoke creating a mask like shape on the child's face. The face has a few yellow stripes. Perhaps you can even add some contouring of the child's face with the colors off the adult Simba's mask / headpiece. No brown or black face needed, any kid can play the lion cub

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 11:04pm

"Now, for the Lion King, we were specifically looking for ethnic children..."

 

I need not read any further than this. All non-white people are not interchangeable. And I find the word "ethnic" to refer to non-whites offensive in and of itself.  

 

(FYI I'm white.) 

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/10/16 at 11:57pm

Oh my god. Lions are yellow. Please cancel the production.

[hork]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 12:07am

gypsy101 said: (I recently watched The Seven Year Itch and thought that modern editors should cut the opening scene where many white men are dressed and made up to look Native).


Are you really advocating censorship? We'd have to edit a lot of old movies. That's not the answer.