Shopping or Selling on StubHub and Craigslist: Helpful? Ethical?

[round2]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 10:50am

Lots of people want to see Hamilton at the Public Theater, with virtually no tickets available, outside the small chance of winning the daily lotteries. Are Stubhub and Craigslist the options for getting a ticket when you're able to pay huge amounts to buy one? I'm especially interested in hearing what people think about the ethics of paying or selling at super high prices to buy tickets for a show, with the overage not benefiting the creative team or the nonprofit company producing the show.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 11:39am

I'm glad you asked, because I have been mulling over those questions for a few days. I've done it once on Stubhub, and I have tickets for Hamilton that I could presumably sell for a hefty profit. In both cases, I bought the tickets in question after I had seen the show once. In the case of Hamilton, since we now know that (and when) it will transfer, my thought is that I don't need to see it again at the Public when I'll be able to see 2.0 soon enough. And with the profit, I could buy plane tickets to New Zealand and make a donation to the Public to boot.

As a buyer, I think it would be nuts but not unethical. As a seller, it is not depriving the theatre of anything it wanted-and the tickets were marked up about as high as any non-profit ticket in history. And I donate to the Public already. And I'd probably tithe 10% of the profit as an extra donation. So I do not have an ethical issue although I am not in the business of buying and selling tickets, which for me is sleazy (but not unethical) but I do admit I feel a little creepy about the whole thing.

[RUkiddingme]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 11:41am

Greed is not good.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 11:48am

If people are willing to buy what you are selling, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. My friends spent a ton of money on StubHub for tickets to Hamilton. No one gets hurt here.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 12:09pm

I think I agree "no one gets hurt" but I still think it is creepy and I am positive, as I said before, your buyer friends are nuts.

[anmiller07]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 12:13pm

Supply and demand. Have any of those tickets on StubHub actually sold for those prices? In any case, I am still willing to pay above face to see Hamilton before it transfers as I loved the intimacy of the Newman and I think that will be lost on Broadway. I wouldn't pay thousands, but $200-$250? Yes.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 12:23pm

Yeah, I couldn't care less what you think, my friends are intelligent individuals and yes, tickets are now selling for a grand a ticket. If you can afford it, why not.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 12:44pm

It is possible to be intelligent and nuts simultaneously. Why not? Because it is not worth that much, and buying tickets in that price range is more about something ego-centered than anything else: kinda like buying a Ferrari that you only drive around Manhattan. BTW, if you can quantity how little you care about what I think, multiply it by a bunch and you'll appreciate how little I care about what you think. But guess what: it is not necessary for you to say that you care less: it's irrelevant.

[Sully2718]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 1:25pm

I have two center orchestra tickets for tomorrow night and I'd sell them in a minute for $500+ each if I had hard copy tickets.

Updated On: 2/27/15 at 01:25 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 3:02pm

you do not need hard copy tickets to sell on stubhub-the pdf of the eticket is all they need.

[Sully2718]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 3:07pm

My tickets are being held at the box office. I guess that;s the last time I choose that option.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/27/15 at 3:43pm

Oh, no, I said I COULDN'T care less. There's a difference. And if you truly didn't care, you wouldn't mention my friends I mentioned days ago in a totally different thread. It's none of your business why people want to pay a lot for these tickets. It may not have to do with anything you are thinking.

[fbueller]

Posted: 2/28/15 at 7:27am

'Greed is not good.'

Too funny!

[AHLiebross]

Posted: 3/1/15 at 7:40am

Scalping is illegal in some states, but it happens all the time, especially now that the Internet makes it so easy.

I have major heartburn about selling above the face value, because it encourages greedy companies to buy up every ticket they can get, reducing the availability through legitimate sources. I suppose the countering argument might be that the company isn't buying up tickets, but subscribers who don't want tour tickets are offering them. Still, it drives me crazy when, months before the individual shows open up on tour to non-subscribers, they're available online at insane prices. It drives me even crazier on Broadway, because it means that people are deliberately going in early and speculating in tickets, reducing the availability for the rest of us.

One of the ways to stop all this is obvious: The theaters should allow refunds (perhaps minus a handling charge) for touring shows. For Broadway, they can do it for hits, where getting a ticket is very difficult. That's a win for everyone, except for profit-seekers whose bottom line is thriving under the black market system.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/1/15 at 9:05am

AHLiebross-
First, scalping is legal in New York so that is not an issue. Second, I don't understand how or why refunding would have the slightest effect of ticket profiteers. If I have tickets to a sold out show I cannot use and do not want to profit, the box office will resell them for me, or I can post a notice here or on similar sites that I have tickets to sell for what I paid for them. The availability of a refund does not temper greed, and of course no sensible producer is going to go along with the idea, because it is disastrous for them.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 3/1/15 at 10:10am

I have major heartburn about selling above the face value, because it encourages greedy companies to buy up every ticket they can get, reducing the availability through legitimate sources.

This is the best argument that I've heard against scalping. I'm almost certain that big money was buying up Cabaret orchestra tables months in advance and selling for a big mark-up in the two or three day period before a performance.

Some theatre companies, such as Roundabout, limit subscribers to eight discounted tickets for any one production. This can help limit partnerships of one or two from doing much scalping. Well-financed syndicates, however, are not deterred.

In fact, I wonder if Roundabout's queer policy of not releasing for public purchase sixty or eighty seats, including many of the best seats, until two or three days before the production is a response to the scalpers. At least half of the best seats will go to the public and Mr. Scalper has to sell into that wave of buying at regular theater prices.
Updated On: 3/3/15 at 10:10 AM

[ahhrealmonsters]

Posted: 3/1/15 at 11:26am

Hasn't there been trouble in the past (maybe not necessarily with theatre tickets) with people selling counterfeit tickets on Stubhub and Craigslist? Just like those people who sell tickets outside the theaters/in Times Square. If you're going to pay a grand, better be sure you're not going to show up to the theater and your tickets don't scan because they're fake/duplicate.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/1/15 at 11:30am

stubhub has, and honors, a total guarantee against that very eventuality. (and you pay for that security.) craig's list does not.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 3/1/15 at 11:36am

Stubhub guarantees their tickets and acts as the middleman so they can ensure authenticity though of course, you pay well for their services in fees. With Craigslist, you're on your own.

Edit: Hogan beat me to it.
Updated On: 3/1/15 at 11:36 AM

[round2]

Posted: 3/2/15 at 12:50pm

Having sprung for full price when the last extension went on sale, my finances are so tight that I can't not think of how much the tickets are worth on the resale market. That makes the cost to me of using them myself, and not selling them, feel even bigger. Not sure I can justify passing up the cash my (inadvertent) investment apparently represents now.

To echo HogansHero, this all does feel very creepy. I also don't like to further the pattern of theater often being only for wealthy people.

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 3/2/15 at 2:27pm

I understand that it's unavoidable in the world we live in, but I just hate the idea of profiting off of someone loving something in such an exorbitant way. I mean, people spend money on these tickets a lot of the time because of how badly they want to see a show and the inability to get tickets through other means, and I hate that people are so obsessed with making a quick buck that they're willing to use someone's love of theatre to line their pockets.

From a less emotional perspective, it also seems to further make theatre inaccessible for those without money. How is the average person supposed to get tickets, even at full price, for a show when scalpers and enterprising fans looking to make money buy all the "good seats" without intentions of using them and then resell them for a fortune? It makes me feel icky.

It is what it is and it won't ever go away, but I'm not a fan and don't purchase tickets secondhand.

[round2]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 12:18pm

I understand how you feel completely, and have never paid above original price for tickets myself. This is certainly because I have not been in the financial position to do it. If I was in a VERY different financial status, there would be times when I might. I'm now in a position of having to figure out if I can justify NOT selling my tickets on the second-hand market - because things are so tough economically for me now. It was difficult to rationalize buying the at $125 per ticket originally.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 1:44pm

Ethical? Because a buyer and a seller both willingly agree on a price for a highly discretionary item? We're not exactly talking about selling water to flood victims for $20 a bottle here.

I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a ticket to an Off-Broadway show, or really any show, but if someone has the money and absolutely HAS to see it now so they can be the coolest kid on their block even though it's transferring in a few months, if I had a pair of tickets, I'd sell it for as much as someone was willing to pay for it without a moment's hesitation. If I was hurting financially, I'd sell it even faster than that. And this in no way, shape or form contributes to "theater no longer being affordable for the middle class". There are plenty of tickets to Broadway shows that can be had for $50 to $60 or less, great Off-Broadway shows for even less than that. Maybe you can't get into the hottest shows at the moment or sit 8th row center orchestra, but that's true with any commodity. People aren't running around bemoaning the fact that sweaters just aren't affordable anymore for the average person because Ralph Lauren sells a Purple Label Cashmere sweater for $1095.


Updated On: 3/3/15 at 01:44 PM

[RUkiddingme]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 1:52pm

There is no difference between a scalper and an "enterprising fan looking to make money"
A scalper is a scalper is a scalper.

ROUND2 - if you're trying to feel better about your decision to rip someone off while you unjustifiably profit off hard working artists, you may not get that here.

If you're so desperate for cash you can sell the ticket at face value. Or maybe get a job.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 2:06pm

"ROUND2 - if you're trying to feel better about your decision to rip someone off while you unjustifiably profit off hard working artists, you may not get that here."

Learn some definitions, dude. Ripping someone off means taking someone's money and then not delivering the product that was promised as described. It does not mean delivering to the buyer the exact item promised and agreed upon just because in your saintly judgment, the selling price was more than you thought it should be. I wonder if you or some of the others on here ever sold a house or a piece of property for more money than you paid for it? Would you consider that unjustifiably profiting off hard working carpenters and plumbers? Should you be required to give any profit you make to the general contractor who built the home? What a load of nonsense.