The Story of Lucy X and Jessie Y Question- Page 3

[madbrian]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:45am

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this thread, but I seem to recall in the video of the 80s concert of Follies, Lee Remick made comments to the effect of this song not really being about anything. Now, I know that like many other concerts, this was done with relatively little rehearsal, but it shocked me to hear comments like that from her.

[newintown]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:56am

If "Lucy and Jessie" confuses you, then you're going to be confused by any brisk wordy song with a lot of rhymes, including "What You Don't Know About Women" (City of Angels), "Let's Not Talk About Love" (Let's Face It), "Both Sides of the Coin" (Mystery of Edwin Drood), and "Ya Got Trouble" (The Music Man), not to mention many, many more.

Sometimes, you just have to pay attention (which may be too much to ask in an ADD culture).

[After Eight]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:38am

"Forgive me if this has already been mentioned in this thread, but I seem to recall in the video of the 80s concert of Follies, Lee Remick made comments to the effect of this song not really being about anything."

A very, very smart woman.

And a wonderful actress.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:47am

I'm on Team Uptown/Downtown. Though I think Lucy and Jessie is fun, I find the imagery used far less effective than that used in Uptown/Downtown.

From the beginning, 'Lucy is juicy' puts me off cause I just start thinking of p*ssy juices and then I'm done. I'm being glib, but I've always found the imagery in Uptown/Downtown to be infinitely clearer while still displaying dazzling wordplay.

I just don't think Ah! But Underneath works for the character's problem as presented through the course of the evening.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 4:25pm

HEY! WHERE'S MY CHORUS BOY!!! DONT MAKE ME COMW DOWN THERE AND FORCE ALL OF YOU TO LISTEN TO THE FIRST DRAFT OF SATURDAY NIGHT!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 7:14pm

I apologize to the OP (who, BTW, successfully answered his own question).

I was speaking in general. I do not believe most audience members who are paying close attention are confused by "The Ballad of Lucy and Jessie".

If anything, the lyrics to "Buddy's Blues" and "Live, Laugh, Love" are more complicated. And to my ear, the rhyming in "Uptown/Downtown" is more self-consciously clever: let's don't give After Eight a stroke!

All of the Loveland numbers (well, forget the quartet for a minute) are challenging because they don't arise from a literal dramatic context, they comment rather than advance the plot.

"Losing My Mind" is easiest because Sally has been saying the same thing all evening.

"Buddy's Blues" is easy because Buddy told us precisely the same story in "The Right Girl" ten minutes earlier.

Both Phyllis and Ben add an extra level of meaning in their final numbers because they speak sardonically rather than literally.

So we have to pay attention, but it can be done.

Updated On: 4/9/13 at 07:14 PM

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 7:38pm

I'm surprised by all this hate for the song. It's one of my favorite Sondheim song, maybe because Phyllis is one of my favorite characters in a Sondheim musical but it's just so clever, sharp and incisive. The only thing I don't like about it is how short it is, especially in terms of Phyllis' vocals. I like Uptown/Downtown and Ah, But Underneath, but The Story of Lucy and Jessie is my favorite.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 7:47pm

Mine, too, Ray. And I agree about the length. Though I miss Alexis Smith, I do like the recent revival recording. Jan Maxwell is also good and the recording includes the dance music, extending the song to a more satisfying length.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:03pm

"A very, very smart woman.

And a wonderful actress."

Wow! You and Sondheim share the same taste in something.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:07pm

Yeah, I hate how edited the version on the OBCR is. (Anyone know when Sondheim changed it from "tell her that she's sweeter than apple pie" to the internal rhyme "sweller than apple pie?" Or was one a mistake?)

"If anything, the lyrics to "Buddy's Blues" and "Live, Laugh, Love" are more complicated. And to my ear, the rhyming in "Uptown/Downtown" is more self-consciously clever: let's don't give After Eight a stroke! "

I think it basically boils down to--again--some people just hear about how it's about two ladies and one is called Lucy and one called Jessie--whereas Uptown/Downtown goes on about hyphenated Harriet, who's so schizo and does this opposite things and can't make up her mind, but is still just Harriet. If you listen to the lyrics, Sondheim does make Lucy and Jesse clear, but, from other musical boards where this has come up (even the Sondheim board,) that's the hook that some peopl get confused by--full stop. Not any of the later rhymes or anything.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:09pm

"To which, our resident sage would no doubt say, with the wisdom of the ages:

"Regardless." (Love it!) "

Wait--so I'm the new "our resident sage" as says you? Thrilling--I hope Whizzer doesn't mind.

[justoldbill]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:19pm

Actually, two screenplays drafted in the 1970's exist at the Performing Arts Library in New York- both rather dismal affairs (Margie is present as a studio tour guide, stuff like that). And that's not even mentioning more recent film-version chatter. Having seen the original production four times myself (I'm older than I look), I say flatly that the effect of that original production can never be replicated or even approached. But it never hurts to try.
And if you've never seen the dance section of the original "Lucy And Jessie", look for it on YouTube. The best!

Updated On: 4/9/13 at 09:19 PM

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:48pm

Having seen the latest Anna Karenina and how they used the theatre space, I wish someone would look at FOLLIES and maybe consider a similar approach.

[After Eight]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:03pm

"but thank God that Sondheim has not found it necessary to write down to the level demanded by A8."

Ha, Ha, Ha! Yeah, the level of Hart, Gershwin, Porter, Coward, Harburg....

If only he could write UP to that level!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:09pm

JustOldBill--are the screenplays credited to anyone? I remember reading somewhere the bizarre rumour that the FOllies as an old MGM style pastiche thing was dropped after That's Entertainment! came out. (And of course it wasn't that long back that Aaron Sorkin claimed to be adapting it...)

Sean--I really enjoyed the last Anna Karenina, and I doubt I'll ever like an adaptation as much as the novel, but I found the theatre effect--while often spectacularly effective, also oddly emotionally distancing--odd especially considering the book. The fact that many complain (and I don't agree) that Follies is too emotionally distancing already, that could be an issue.

Re Bennett's great choreography for the song--it's interesting that it's been said when he dropped Uptown/Downtown they missed the great visual metaphor he had for the song with the dancers facing upstage, or downstage, etc--since Lucy and Jesse's dance break seems to use that anyway.

[Kad]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 10:12pm

I'm a big fan of "Uptown/Downtown". It's definitely the most clever of the three songs, and it's just as succinct as "Lucy and Jessie"- but more clear. I've had numerous discussion as to who Lucy and Jessie are, despite it (seemingly) being obvious from the song. "Uptown/Downtown", it's never in question. The "It's so schizo" section is one of my favorite verses of any song, ever.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 12:43am

And if you've never seen the dance section of the original "Lucy And Jessie", look for it on YouTube. The best!

It's right here:

http://youtu.be/AmexU4Qd0HM

This is why it's considered so great.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 12:52am

Oh, Follies, you make me glad to be alive.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 9:59am

I had no idea that people were confused about who Lucy and Jessie are, but I guess I've listened to the song so many times that I can't really be objective about it. It's just so good and it fits so well with the concept of the young/older main characters. I sometimes fantasy direct the show in my head (don't ask), and envision the number with Young Phyllis making an appearance in the number, perhaps dancing along with present-day Phyllis, this might be hitting the audience over the head though. FOLLIES threads are the best.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 10:41am

^^ I do much the same thing, save that in my case, I look at it and think "How can I really turn this into a frightening little ghost story?" Because cut through it all, that's what it is. The opening of the 2001 (2002?) revival, with the flashlight, was the only brilliant moment of that production, but at the same time, it was freaking brilliant. And I look at the script now and think Wouldnt it be cool to incorporate modern projection technology (in a very subtle way) to make the ghosts — especially in the opening and in numbers like the ballroom dance specialty — honest to God ghosts. It could be marvelously chilling, all the while emphasizing that whole theme of lost opportunities.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 10:52am

Yes, but Bennett and Prince did that without technology. They had the audience experience the ghosts not because they looked like ghosts or holographs or a technical achievement but because the music suggested ghosts and the staging and the choreography and the costumes and the lights supported that.

[darquegk]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 11:59am

I think SeanMartin and Pal Joey are BOTH right on the money for this one. The success and failure of "Follies" throughout the years has been that it flirts with genres but never really falls into any of them.

It has elements of a ghost story- without ghosts or hauntings.
It has elements of murder mystery- without murders, or mysteries.
It has elements of psychological horror- but the horror is of how mundane life is.
It has elements of David Lynch-like "psychotic magic realism-" without anything truly psychotic or nightmarish.

From the clips I have seen and the essays I have read, Bennett and Prince decided to skirt this issue and, for lack of a better word, "make it a Fellini thing," and bend the rules as they saw fit without ever settling too hard into any genre.

The adaptation possibilities throughout the years have always had one thing in common: genre exploration, attempting to pinhole exactly what they want Follies to be, and turn it into more of that. If I remember, one of the big concepts for a film was to age up the main characters from middle age into being mostly elderly, having been members of the vaudeville-meets-MGM studio crossover era, and have the film as a "psycho-biddy" piece in the Baby Jane tradition.

[lovebwy]

Posted: 8/18/14 at 3:35am

I don't see how Sondheim can claim this number has anything to do with Cole Porter. It is very clearly based on Saga of Jenny.

I too loved Jan Maxwell's version of Story. And I loved her cartwheel at the end (which she seemed to only do at 50% of the performances)

Also, I don't find the lyrics confusing at all. It's all about her inner conflict. As Woody Allen said "It's very hard to get your heart and your head together in life. In my case they're not even friends".


Saga of Jenny Updated On: 8/18/14 at 03:35 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/18/14 at 10:37am

Cole Porter was fond of songs that told the story of someone's sad story, comically rendered, like this song, here sung by Tammy Grimes, of an upwardly aspiring shellfish:

[Kad]

Posted: 8/18/14 at 10:48am

I thought Sondheim only specifically mentioned "Uptown/Downtown" as a Porter pastiche in Finishing the Hat- not "Lucy and Jessie". Since I don't have the book at hand, I can't verify if I'm remembering correctly.