Bad Lyrics- Page 6

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 10:31pm

I'm pretty sure that the "bridge" line from Wicked has been mentioned on this thread before. In fact, I think it's been mentioned numerous times. So, no, not everyone thinks it's a brilliant lyric.

For the record, I never said it was brilliant. I just said it doesn't jump out at me as bad.

If nothing else, it expresses a more complex and interesting thought than most musical theater lyrics.

Updated On: 8/29/12 at 10:31 PM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 12:11am

"Norma's back."


one of the greats as one of the greats Updated On: 8/29/12 at 12:11 AM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 12:29am

I hope you're happy, henrik, that I had to use all of my undergrad Spanish to read the article before I realized your joke was in English.

Don't make me close the iron door...

[jansalrose2]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 4:47am

Thank you, Owen, for confirming my suspicions that you are a troll. But then again, what do I know. I'm just a silly preteen on Mummy's computer.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:56am

Gaveston, I'm using all of my grammar school English to understand your post. And sorry but I'm not succeeding.

My point, and I do have one, is that I'd give my left arm to see Aleandro as Callas. Great excuse to go to Buenos Aires in the fall. I mean spring.

Norma, indeed is back again! This is Aleandro's return to the stage after 15 years away. And the reviews are stellar!

La Divina plays La Divina! I'm having multi-orgs.








VOLVER Y REGRESO DE RETOMAR! Updated On: 8/29/12 at 08:56 AM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 3:14pm

Isn't the lyric, "They'll say Norma's back at last"? It indicates her return has been long-awaited.

[ChiChi]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 3:19pm

Yes that is the lyric.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 4:11pm

I'm going to state that I think Gaveston is really, really stretching to say that some people might assume that Norma (or anyone) is talking about her back in that line from "As If We Never Said Goodbye." I can't help but feel that it would take a very special person to interpret that line as not being about her return to the movies and her fans.

[ChiChi]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 4:18pm

You wouldn't be members of AEA AGMA and SM by any chance, would you?

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 7:08pm

AEA, I tend to agree with you. My dear Gaveston, how that ever occurred to you is beyond me.

They'll say Norma's "back" again. Since there would be little, if any, reason for folks to have ever referred to Norma's "back" (noun form) in the first place,* there would be no reason for them to mention it "again".

*There may be times when a movie star's back is the object of adulation, but rarely is it the subject of constant comment. In such highly theoretical circumstances, however, it would seem that people would be likely to talk about it as much as they would want to irrespective of that star's being long gone from the screen.

Tom: Hey, Buddy, remember Genevieve Bujold's back.

Bill: Oh, yeah, I loved when she turned around in "Coma."

Tom: Canadian chicks have rockin' shoulder blades!

Bill: Did you check out her lats in "Obsession"? They were AMAZING!

Tom: Wonder what ever happened to her.

Bill: Yeah. Hope she still has a back.

Updated On: 8/30/12 at 07:08 PM

[jv92]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 7:47pm

"I adore Ragtime, but this one lyric in What Kind of Woman always bothered me:

"Each day the maids trudge up the hill.
The hired help arrives.
I never stopped to think they might have lives
beyond our lives." "


That's the best lyric in the show. It's the beginning of Mother coming to understand there is more to life than Broadview Avenue.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 7:56pm

Gaveston, I'm using all of my grammar school English to understand your post. And sorry but I'm not succeeding.

What I meant was I read the entire article (and trust me, when it's Spanish, I move my lips when I read) before I realized that your joke referred to Norma Aleandro and wasn't buried in the fine print. Mi malo.

Updated On: 8/29/12 at 07:56 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:04pm

I'm going to state that I think Gaveston is really, really stretching to say that some people might assume that Norma (or anyone) is talking about her back in that line from "As If We Never Said Goodbye." I can't help but feel that it would take a very special person to interpret that line as not being about her return to the movies and her fans.

Please allow me to clarify, then. I'm not saying anybody ever was so confused by that line that they remained confused days later and had to buy the libretto to solve the mystery.

I'm saying that when you begin a line with:

They'll say, "..."

You often don't know for sure where the listener will put the end of the quotation. In this case, any confusion would be very brief, I'm sure. But why do you want your listener to spend even a split-second deciphering your lyric? If it were a brilliant line, it might be worth it, but, really...

My point was that the OP was correct: "Norma's back where she belongs" is a better line, and not just because "back" is a more important word for that third note than "Nor"(ma).

And, yeah, I'm probably stretching a little here, but the principle is correct. With sung lyrics, I don't think you can assume the listener's attention is entirely linear; more often, people hear snatches of lyrics hear and there (which is one reason some repetition is necessary).

Updated On: 8/29/12 at 08:04 PM

Posted: 8/30/12 at 11:46am

Updated On: 8/30/12 at 11:46 AM

[GlindatheGood22]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 2:12pm

"That's the best lyric in the show. It's the beginning of Mother coming to understand there is more to life than Broadview Avenue."

Yes, but the rhyming of lives with lives...

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 3:12pm

^^^"Lives" doesn't rhyme with "lives"; the first occurrence doesn't rhyme with anything. The second occurrence rhymes with "arrives".

If each occurrence of "lives" were in the same place on its respective line, it would be called an "identity", not a "rhyme".

Updated On: 8/30/12 at 03:12 PM

[It's a fine life!]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 4:14pm

I guess I must not understand the intention of Finn with a lot of his lyrics.

[FlowerChild67]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 5:15pm

Oh, there are some great lyrics in Stephen Shwartz gem Children of Eden. *sarcasm mode off*. It's almost hard to pick the stupidest, but I think it's a contest between
"And with a gentle kiss
they soon discover this:
they're love was more than sister and brother".

And

"And the grass was perfect
and the sky was perfect
and the bark of the trees was dappled and rough
But not too rough.
And when there was a cloud, the only cloud allowed,
was fleecy white, and just assymetric enough".

It's scary how bad the lyrics in that show are, honestly....

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 6:06pm

I'm going to state that I think Gaveston is really, really stretching to say that some people might assume that Norma (or anyone) is talking about her back in that line from "As If We Never Said Goodbye."

You mean "They'll say Norma's back at last" from "With One Look"? Am I the only one who's familiar with the show? LOL

I guess I must not understand the intention of Finn with a lot of his lyrics.

What do you mean? Is there a particular song you don't understand? Not all his lyrics are straightforward. In Trousers and March of the Falsettos often used lyrics poetically to frame the emotions or mood of a particular scene thematically. But I'd say 90% of his lyrics say precisely what they mean.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 7:55pm

Totally my bad, Mister Matt (red embarrassed face). For some reason in my head I was sticking the "They'll say Norma's back at last line" at the end of the bridge in "As If We Never Said Goodbye" leading to the big dramatic key change ("And this time will be bigger").

Either way, while I understand better how Gaveston drew the argument that the line could be potentially confusing, I still think it's a pretty big stretch that anybody would hear the line as "They'll say, "Norma's back" at last".

[donte7162004]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 8:31pm

In "NYC" from Annie, it goes:

"NYC....What is it about you??? You're big...you're loud...you're tough............."

...and that's it.

Every time I hear this song, I add ".....you're PROUD...." And I think to myself, why don't THEY say this??? Drives me crazy.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 9:06pm

Either way, while I understand better how Gaveston drew the argument that the line could be potentially confusing, I still think it's a pretty big stretch that anybody would hear the line as "They'll say, "Norma's back" at last".

You are absolutely right, AEA. I doubt many people are confused by that line. My point was just that lyric lines aren't always heard in the carefully linear manner with which we read them on the page. It's usually a better idea to phrase lyric lines so they can only be heard in the way intended.

But, no, I was never confused by Norma on that line and I doubt many other people were. On the other hand, a better lyric line wouldn't be open to two literal meanings.

For example, are "they" saying, "Norma's back at last" or are they "at last" saying "Norma's back". This is a minor difference, but do you really want the listener deciphering while your star is singing?

Updated On: 8/30/12 at 09:06 PM

[GrandAsTheCanyon]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 9:09pm

In Wicked:
``My tender heart tend to start to bleed`` (It's a nice word play on `tend``and `to`, but I can't help thinking ``Tend to? What are the circunstance in which your heart bleeds and the circunstance in which it does not? Because you are giving a makeover to a girl with freaking green skin and you seem just fine.)

``To late to go back to sleep`` (Go back to sleep? As far as I know, the last thing you did was meeting the Wizard and before that you were having a fun time visiting Emerald City. You can't go back to sleeping if you weren't sleeping in the first place.)

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 9:21pm

What do you mean? Is there a particular song you don't understand? Not all his lyrics are straightforward. In Trousers and March of the Falsettos often used lyrics poetically to frame the emotions or mood of a particular scene thematically. But I'd say 90% of his lyrics say precisely what they mean.

I think Finn is one of the few writers to write effective musicals set in the present day since Sondheim wrote COMPANY and FOLLIES (and we could argue whether the latter is really set in the "present"). Most musicals benefit from an exotic setting, be it the South Pacific or Neverland, because the setting helps to justify the singing.

But Finn's musicals, particularly the FALSETTOS trilogy, take place in a psychological landscape of the mind that is just as "singable" as turn of the 20th century Oklahoma or Covent Garden. He uses a lot of metaphor (such as the recurrent theme of "feeding" as a metaphor for "loving" or sports for relationship conflict) that raise the level of the action until it is singable (as opposed to a realistic straight play about contemporary people).

But you are right: his lyrics usually have a literal meaning as well. Marvin really does expect Trina or Whizzer to "make the dinner".

(NOTE: Just to be clear, Mister Matt, I am agreeing with you and elaborating, not arguing.) Updated On: 8/30/12 at 09:21 PM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/30/12 at 9:55pm

Donte, NYC IS big, loud and tough.