New York in the 70s

[Jay94]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 5:00am

This is just something I've been thinking about lately...

New York in the 70s was notorious for its drugs, violence and porn. I was just curious what it was like to be on Broadway or seeing Broadway shows during this time. I've just always found it strange that famous actors and actresses like Angela Lansbury performed in Broadway theaters only a short distance away from the squalor of Times Square and lived with the dangers of living in New York during this time.

Posted: 6/22/11 at 9:56am

The phrase "running the gauntlet" comes to mind. Just getting to shows like ANNIE or A CHORUS LINE was nerve-wracking. Walking to or from Pier 84 after a concert was something you did only in large groups.

42nd St. from Bryant Park to the Port Authority was a no-go zone, and Eighth Ave. up to 50th St. was nothing but hookers, pimps, and porn. And in the center of it all was the Milford Plaza.

Take a look at "Midnight Cowboy," "Taxi Driver," or even "Basketball Diaries" for a film peek of how life was on the street.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 10:16am

There was a huge dichotomy. You had to walk past some of the messiest aspects of humanity to get inside to see some of the most wonderful productions.

Lena Horne makes a joke in her recorded show "Lena Horne: The Lady & Her Music" about how normally nobody ventured down to 41st Street, but that she was having no problems getting people in.

It wasn't the porn and prostitutes that were so bad. You could ignore them and keep walking. It was the homeless and drug addicts that were the problems. Having to step around an addict vomiting in the street or a homeless person peeing on the sidewalk or a mentally ill person running at you, or the lowlifes that hung near the subway eyeing who they could steal from. Times Square was an umpleasant area, but really it was the entire city. Central Park was a huge mess. The Lower East Side was just as bad or worse than Times Square. Really, the whole city was a mess.

Updated On: 6/22/11 at 10:16 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 10:16am

I think that picture of NYC is a bit exaggerated - yes, there was more crime and squalor, but in the Times Square area, there were so many people around between 6AM-2AM, actual robbery/attack seemed implausible. I certainly always felt safe.

I would prefer those hookers and shady types to the hideous hordes of tourists on 8th Ave today, but that's another topic - which do you prefer, the banality of safety and cleanliness or the reality of sex and violence?

However, there were parts of town (north of 80th between the park and Broadway, for instance) that always felt sketchy after the sun went down.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 10:25am

I would prefer those hookers and shady types to the hideous hordes of tourists on 8th Ave today, but that's another topic - which do you prefer, the banality of safety and cleanliness or the reality of sex and violence?

Isn't there an in-between? I certainly would prefer a more authentic experience when I'm in Times Square, but don't know how much of a threat of violence I really want.

I'm far too young to have been in New York in the 70s, but I must admit that I'm really fascinated by it. My mother was in nursing school at St. Vincent's in the mid to late 70s and although she was mugged at least once, she said she never really felt that unsafe.

[Jon]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 10:28am

There are several videos on YouTube showing Times Square in the 70's.

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 11:50am

My fondest memory was always eating at Brew Burger whenever I went. I can also remember a class trip where they actually let us off the bus on 42nd around 8th and let us walk around. I remember it being seedy and everyone saying "keep your hands in your pockets and put your wallet in your socks". I took my first NYC cab ride one day from the train station to the Martin Beck Theater to see "Dracula" with Frank Langella. I arrived in NYC late and had 10 minutes to get to the theater for curtain. I was in my seat by 1:58. The scariest and most fun cab ride ever. I loved Times Square back then. It seemed to be more interesting than it is now. Loved standing at TKTS and people watching.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 12:01pm

The only people who say they would rather have the "gritty atmosphere" back in Times Square were never mugged, robbed, beaten, or stabbed there. That changes the answer pretty quickly.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 12:07pm

Thank god nobody gets mugged, robbed, beaten or stabbed in New York any more.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 12:07pm

I remember seeing The Wind in the Willows in 1985 on a Saturday night, and I literally ran from the theatre to Grand Central when the show was over as I was by myself.

I think back when my parents let me go into the city when I was 15 with my best friend, but we were always told NOT to walk on 42nd Street.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 12:15pm

The whole of "The Tipping Point" is worth reading, but the chapter on New York in the 70s and Bernie Goetz are particularly interesting (I thought).

Also, this issue of grit and authenticity vs. sanitized safety really ties in with gentrification, and I would recommend anyone interested in that evolution read Sharon Zukin's "Naked City: The Death and Life of Authentic Urban Places."
Naked City

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 12:19pm

So very glamorous, Dottie. Bring that back!

I used to walk seven blocks at 2AM to the subway after waiting tables in 1985. The things I heard and saw ...

I was never attacked (harassed and propositioned more than I care to remember). Still it's a big difference when they're just "screen extras" in the background of your movie-life as opposed to pivotal players all up in your face. The allure tends to wear off in a split-second.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 12:27pm

I don't ever remember being afraid while walking in the theatre district or on 42nd Street during the 1970's. If you held your head up and looked into the eyes of passersby, there was generally no problem. At the same time, the New York Theatre was going through the doldrums, with exceptions, of course. So I wasn't in the theatre district that much. I missed some shows I later regretted not seeing, like Jule Styne's HALLELUIA! BABY.

As someone mentioned, the hoards of tourists on the now squeaky clean if garish 42nd Street, and also along Broadway, are suffocating and annoying; but if they are going to the theatre, I guess they can't be all bad.

[bk]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 12:34pm

Shaft has some wonderful shots of 1970s New York. I lived there in 1969-1970 - for this LA boy it was, occasionally, VERY scary. But there was something about the energy back then that was sort of addictive. I spent a lot of time in the theater district and that always felt fine to me. Eighth Avenue felt okay, too, and for all its squalor, I never felt unsafe on 42nd Street and I went to the movies there occasionally, although I NEVER used the restrooms. But it was unthinkable to go as far west as Ninth, heaven forbid Tenth.

Posted: 6/22/11 at 1:23pm

How about some more pleasant memories?

Eating pancakes at midnight in a window booth at the Howard Johnson's, where that American Eagle shop is now,

The Clash causes a riot at Bond's, when it was a disco,

Copping a nickel bag of oregano from the nice man at the Hotel Carter,

Holding up the cardboard fake ID template for the camera so your face goes into the cutout in the picture, and

Learning the hard way why you really should use the locks on the booths at Show World.

[newintown]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 1:33pm

Now those are some real New York memories.

[charlesjguiteau]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 4:33pm

Yay, broadway local. Your memories match a bunch of my own.

As soon as I was college-age with enough spending money, I'd pack myself on a train from Boston to New York to cram in a weekend (or week) of show-going. Best single week of 1975: seeing current cast of Pippin, OBC of Chicago, and OBC of A Chorus Line. (And 13th-row orchestra seat for ACL was $15.) None of the sleazy goings on on 42nd St. or 8th Ave ever dampened the spirits of a 19-year-old on the loose in NYC, believe me. The bulbs circling the marquees, the fabled shows with lines waiting for cancellation tickets, the stage doors from which at any minute you could get a glimpse of Angela Lansbury (in Gypsy) or Gwen Verdon was all exactly the same to me as the buffed-up cleaned up version is to any drama-queen kid hitting the street today.

In fact, most of my visits to Broadway shows were mixed in with visits to the Gaiety (right next to broadwaylocal's Howard Johnson's and up a flight of stairs) or Showworld's peep booths on 8th Ave. Turned out to be a terrific way to marry seeing a great show and getting a turn-on in my impressionable young mind, a one-two combo that's kept me coming back to broadway shows ever since. :

Did I ever get mugged on the street? Yeah, once in broad daylight on the sidewalk at 42nd St by the Public Library (Needle Park was the name for Bryant Park right behind me), some guy demanded the gold chain around my neck. Weirdly I managed to talk him out of it, but was seriously shaken for the rest of the day. Did it alter my affection for Times Square and the lure of Broadway?

ARE YOU KIDDIN'? (Said in Gwen Verdon's inimitable voice.)

[Idiot]

Posted: 6/22/11 at 6:06pm

My family traveled from NC to New York often in the seventies, so I remember it from about three feet high. We'd always stay at the City Squire -- is that the Sheraton now?

I remember all of the warnings, but we never had the slightest problem. We saw the original APPLAUSE, PACIFIC OVERTURES, SHENANDOAH, A CHORUS LINE, ANNIE -- never had a problem.

I do remember, once landing at NYU in 1986, thinking, "I've never seen this NYC before." But I remember both very fondly.

[Jay94]

Posted: 6/23/11 at 5:05am

Around what year did NYC begin to change?

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/23/11 at 7:09am

"Around what year did NYC begin to change?"


In what direction?

The decline into squalor started in full-force in the late '60s (although it had been slowly coming on for several years), and it lasted into the late '80s. The corporatization started in the late '80s and is still going on today. This is all very evident in movies that have been shot on location at any given time.

I was born there, and lived in NYC until '66. Then moved back from '85 to '87. Lots of visits in between and after.


EDIT: Of course, I'm of the opinion that New York, and Times Square in particular, is always changing.

Updated On: 6/23/11 at 07:09 AM

[Jay94]

Posted: 6/23/11 at 7:53am

When did New York change into the New York of today?

[nygrl232]

Posted: 6/23/11 at 8:06am

What were the crowds in Times Square like in the 70's? Now it's so crowded even during what you'd think were 'off peak' times that I avoid the neighborhood unless I really need to be there.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 6/23/11 at 8:19am

I have to say i was looking forward to reading this thread because of my intrest in NY in the 70s and 80s. However as someone who is from the UK and visits New York a lot so could be considered a 'tourist' i find the attitude from the people on here disgusting. Without those tourists you would not have a theatre district.

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/23/11 at 8:42am

songanddance, yes, yes the tourists are important not only to the theatre district but to the city. However, as someone who now works and spends a lot of time in the city, I can see where some of the comments come from. It is those tourists that just don't pay attention to what is going on around them. Stopping dead in the middle of the sidewalk in groups and not realizing that they are blocking passage and don't seem to care. I take a bus home to Jersey and there is usually a line at the gate. I have seen tourists jump the line and push their way onto a bus. Not all tourists are this way but there are enough of them to make this noticeable. So yes, it can be annoying. I, myself, just brush it off and move on to wherever I am going but I do find it annoying at times. Not only is NYC a big tourist destination but it is also where people live and work. I am enjoying this thread a lot. Just my random thoughts.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/23/11 at 8:49am

Times Square has always welcomed and expected tourists as a necessary part of who they are. But there is a BIG difference between catering to tourists and losing your identity to them.

While they shouldn't shut tourists out, they shouldn't let them call the shots either and decide what will be there (more or less). The same thing goes, IMO, for the shows running in the Theatre District. But the almighty dollar has spoken, I guess.

I'm glad Times Square is safer now than it was in the '70s, and I wouldn't want the hookers and drug dealers again, but it's so much more sterile than it was back then.

It's like junk food that tastes really good but is bad for you, versus health food that is safe but tastes like cardboard.

We're living in cardboard times (or Times?) right now.


When did New York change into the New York of today?

I'm not sure I understand your question. If you're looking for a specific date, there isn't one. It's a "work in progress" and always has been, so what you see in the streets today evolved over many years and decades. It didn't just spring up on August 28, 1994, or something like that.

But this is definitely the "corporate era" Times Square.

Three major things contributed to what it is right now: the Disneyfication of Times Square, when the hookers and drug dealers were cleared out, the lift on the ban against selling air rights, so that corporations could build on top of existing theatres and structures (which sadly obliterated most of the sky), and yet another advancement in technology for billboards and ads. Times Square has always had cutting-edge ads (going back to the 1920s), but a big leap in LED screens, computer tech, etc., brought us to the "look" it has today.

I think it looks like something out of Bladerunner now.