Bette's Dolly Cast Uninspired?- Page 3

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 9/19/16 at 5:11pm

^ Could not have said it better myself.

[Oak2]

Posted: 9/19/16 at 5:17pm

@Steve C. - I think it's a little different because white and non-white actors do not have the same level of opportunity - yes, there are a smattering of plays and musicals designed for a Non-White cast (almost always specifically Black/African-American - the only ones that come to mind as being designed specifically or Hispanic actors and actresses would be West Side Story and In the Heights, and the only ones specifically for actors/actresses of Asian descent I can think of are Flower Drum Song, Miss Saigon, and Allegiance). However the vast majority of works tend to have originally had all-white or primarily-white casts, so when you have a chance where a role doesn't specifically HAVE to be White, then one should be encouraged to cast a non-white actor or actress since otherwise they aren't going to have as many opportunities for roles as white actors and actresses. This doesn't necessarily mean you should enforce that the role should be non-white - talent should be the big thing you look for above all - but it should certainly be encouraged.

As for whether Hello, Dolly! can be considered a show that HAS to have an all-white cast, it certainly doesn't, as has been already proven by the fact that professional All-Black versions of the show have been done and were pulled off fine. Non-White people were around in Turn of the Century America, and as said by others, this is already such an idealized, fantasy version of Turn of the Century America that nothing is lost by Non-White actors or actresses being in the roles. I don't necessarily think the show should be lambasted or boycotted or anything by choosing to cast all or mostly white actors and actresses in the primary roles, as they certainly might have just happened to cast the most talented people who auditioned, but I can definitely understand why people are disappointed that such a big show isn't a little more diverse in its casting, since it's going to be guaranteed to give anyone in it exposure as people will be buying tickets by the boatload in the first place just to see Bette Midler on stage.

[Valentina3]

Posted: 9/19/16 at 5:17pm

Steve, you're comparing apples to oranges. Characters of color should be performed by person of that color. All characters in Hello Dolly are independent of their race. Changing their race from what's been the "tradition" adds layers and often changes the perspectives of how you look at the material and what it means to you, but it doesn't change the content. Sutton / Sierra in Shuffle / The Color Purple simply won't make sense because the story is about the black community. In Shuffle, it is the ENTIRE premise of the show. In Color, it guides and controls every single character and their choices.


Your conclusion that " it's just one one where you can't please everyone, all the time." is accurate, though.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 9/19/16 at 5:20pm

Steve C. said: "In response to audience behavior, I don't think that will be a huge problem. When I saw "I'll Eat You Last", Bette got appropriate entrance applause and basically the laughs and applause from the play. Don't get me wrong; the audience loved her, but respectful.

As to the lack of color questions, I'm so stuck in the middle on this. People are going to say "Where's the diversity?" and that's a valid question, but then what do you say about "Color Purple" or other productions where color is very important? August Wilson plays, "Ain't Misbehavin", "Shuffle" ?? You would be ripped to shreds if you put Sierra Boggess in "Purple" or Sutton Foster in "Shuffle Along". However, having an Audra as "Dolly" would be great with audiences and I agree. That's why there was a Pearl Bailey led "Dolly";  also Diahhann Carroll was Norma Desmond in "Sunset Boulevard" after and during the runs of that show because it's written like that.  

I think this is just one where you can't please everyone, all the time.  

 

"

The reason that The Color Purple or Shuffle Along require all-black cast is that the characters are intentionally written as ethnically specific, which means if you put Laura Benanti in the Color Purple the show itself won't make sense. Now is any character in Dolly specifically written for Caucasians, or does it have any line specifically indicating their ethnicity like Chris in Miss Saigon? I'm not familiar with the material, but judging from how people are reacting to the casting, it doesn't seem to be the case.

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 9/19/16 at 5:22pm

Count me among those thrilled by Baldwin's casting. I saw her do Bells Are Ringing in the Berkshires last year, and her comedic timing was brilliant. She can totally pull off zany. 

[Steve C.]

Posted: 9/19/16 at 5:45pm

I agree with all of you guys and I completely understand. It's like I said, I'm stuck in the middle. When you have a show like Flower DS, or Color P, yes and yes: therefore when a production comes along like Dolly a POC should have been considered but for all we know, maybe many did audition that we are not aware of. It's very distressing to be so on the fence about this.  

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 9/19/16 at 8:11pm

I believe Dolly Gallagher Levi is Irish who then married Jewish. As for the rest, I don't recall anything specific.

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 9/19/16 at 9:32pm

In a recent episode of the TheaterPeople podcast, Jose Llana spoke about the challenges that actors of color face and made some great comments regarding the state of casting today more eloquently than I ever could. I'd highly recommend giving it a listen.

[Up In One]

Posted: 9/20/16 at 12:02am

I was talking more about Bette and her politics and bawdiness - I would have thought her persona and her leverage as a star would have resulted in more interesting choices than the academic ones made here. 

[binau]

Posted: 9/20/16 at 12:24am

LizzieCurry said: "qolbinau said: "It's Hello Dolly, not Hello Delores.

(just kidding). "

???

...I'm not even sure what you were attempting here.

 

"

That's fine. For those that did get it: please note I am only joking of course. I have reserved a slot in my show calendar to see (hopefully) Audra, Queen L, Whoopi, or whoever is the alternate. I don't know if I'm in a minority, but Pearl Bailey's Dolly is the only one that gets serious listening from my perspective. Not to sound too racist or superlative, but I'd argue black women have the best voices on average of any demographic in the world. They should be rewarded as such with frequent casting on Broadway. 

[Owen22]

Posted: 9/20/16 at 2:23am

It also seems very un-PC to actually say, when referring to non-traditonal casting, that the POC actor is playing WHITE.  They have not changed a character that, given said character's time, opportunities, and relationships, would be anything other than white (Audra's Lizzie in "110 in the Shade" comes to mind). But that rarely comes up when people defend color-blind casting.  But it's all pretend, so why not say it?

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 9/20/16 at 2:41am

Owen22 said: "It also seems very un-PC to actually say, when referring to non-traditonal casting, that the POC actor is playing WHITE.  They have not changed a character that, given said character's time, opportunities, and relationships, would be anything other than white (Audra's Lizzie in "110 in the Shade" comes to mind). But that rarely comes up when people defend color-blind casting.  But it's all pretend, so why not say it?

 

"

That's why I always do air quotes when using the term "white" role.

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 1:13pm

I'm just thrilled for Jennifer Simard. I was re-reading the old DISASTER reviews thread yesterday and was thinking how she actually was so good to earn a Tony nom from that show. You don't see that too often.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 12:30pm

In today's world- color counting is getting ridiculous- some productions have a very diverse cast- some are totally African American- some are totally white- so what? Does every production on Broadway, every movie, every television show- do they all have to conform to some politically correct diversity equation  NO- this has gone too far- maybe at some point the Dolly cast will get more diverse- and maybe not- don't see it if you don't want to- and if you do not like many of the productions that feature black casts-don't see that either. 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 12:53pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "In today's world- color counting is getting ridiculous- some productions have a very diverse cast- some are totally African American- some are totally white- so what? Does every production on Broadway, every movie, every television show- do they all have to conform to some politically correct diversity equation  NO- this has gone too far- maybe at some point the Dolly cast will get more diverse- and maybe not- don't see it if you don't want to- and if you do not like many of the productions that feature black casts-don't see that either. "

Oh, go cry into your #AllLivesMatter sign.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 5:22pm

Big Girls Don't Cry- and yes ALL lives matter- and I think Black Lives Matter is an offensive group name.

Updated On: 9/24/16 at 05:22 PM

[behindthescenes2]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 9:10pm

Yes to uninspired, but smart with regards to attempting to make Bette Midler look younger by casting Irene Malloy at 40  and not 30  and Horace at 13 years her junior, but it is an important stretch of 13 years (57 goes into 70 alot more than 70 goes into 57) even with a strap on.

And that none of the talent cast will attempt or have the natural talents to steal focus or upstage her.  That Matinee Dolly will have a lot of personal pride to swallow doing those two shows a week.

[sephyr]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 9:42pm

If you're offended by BLM, then you obviously are missing the whole point of that movement...but that's a whole other topic.

I can't count how many shows I have seen where there have been a cast of majority white people (especially as principals). And don't get me started on some shows throwing in a sassy black lady to hit the riffs in the background of the group numbers. It would be refreshing to see more African Americans (and other minorities) cast in roles that aren't stereotypical and are integral to the plot. I was not expecting diverse casting from this show, but it would have been a nice surprise instead of sprinkling a few black people into the ensemble....but I digress. Yes, we are making strides in diverse casting but this is only the beginning.

[binau]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 11:22pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "Big Girls Don't Cry- and yes ALL lives matter- and I think Black Lives Matter is an offensive group name.

 

"

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that maybe we are getting a bit too 'PC' these days, but in the specific case of Black Lives Matter the slogan is not 'Black Lives Only Matter' or 'Black Lives Matter More' it is simply 'Black Lives Matter', in the same way that an organisation for any particular specific cause does not necessarily exclude another or suggest their cause is more important than another. It seems a bit hypocritical to claim that we are living in overly PC times and then get 'offended' at a phrase that shouldn't be offensive. 

[indytallguy]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 4:06am

BWAY Baby2 said: "Big Girls Don't Cry- and yes ALL lives matter- and I think Black Lives Matter is an offensive group name."

 

What is offensive is that police continue to kills a disproportionate percentage of African-Americans in what appear to be questionable confrontations.

 

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 5:44am

Of course I agree that there is a big problem in tis country with a disproportionate number of blacks being shot for no good reason- reprehensible- just not sure that when statistics are closely studied that there are also plenty of non-black shootings and deaths by police for all groups. Regardless- of course black lives matter- and all lives matter- and BLM is not in any way an offensive name in itself- but it has become a slogan for some very questionable ideas and public statements. I am just so tired of all of this war between races and ethnicities in the 21st century- when diversity is respected in so many ways more than ever. Believe me- I deplore the races tactics of Trump- and have been a supporter of progressive politics my whole life- just tired of every movie and broadway show having to go under the microscope to see if there are black performers- and if not- calling it racist or whatever. Plenty of black movies this year- and there will be black casts on broadway too. 

[jayinchelsea]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 11:03am

Count me in as one who is thrilled with the casting (just saw Taylor Trensch this summer as Tyler Clementi in POSTER BOY, he was great and will be a great Barnaby, assuming he can dance), but also sort of shocked that there is NO diversity at all. That is so wrong in 2016, particularly when we have Trump and his kind to contend with. In the 60s a big deal was made when Pearl Bailey and company came to do the all-black version; have we really not moved forward at all? Colorblind casting should be the rule today, not the exception. This sends the wrong message to the rest of the country, imo.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 11:35am

Anyone else finding it challenging to navigate between the mutually opposed (but equally unavailing) demands for "realistic" i.e. "traditional" casting, on the one hand, and for more "inspired" i.e. "non-traditional" casting, on the other?  Sometimes it almost seems as if half the theatre-going public is put off by non-traditional casting and the other half is put off by traditional casting - as if there has to be something wrong with either.  The objection shouldn't be to either, but rather to the compulsion to either.

[Whateverjsays]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 11:41am

jayinchelsea said: "Count me in as one who is thrilled with the casting (just saw Taylor Trensch this summer as Tyler Clementi in POSTER BOY, he was great and will be a great Barnaby, assuming he can dance), but also sort of shocked that there is NO diversity at all. That is so wrong in 2016, particularly when we have Trump and his kind to contend with. In the 60s a big deal was made when Pearl Bailey and company came to do the all-black version; have we really not moved forward at all? Colorblind casting should be the rule today, not the exception. This sends the wrong message to the rest of the country, imo.

 

"

I'm going to agree with what bway baby2 said before this. I don't think we need to pinpoint when people of color aren't cast in a show. They probably hired who they thought was best for the show, and they shouldn't have to hire specific people just because they want to fill a quota. If they turned someone down specifically for being black then you can complain about that. But I think the cast is going to be great, I'm happy with their choices. And some of the biggest names on Broadway right now (Audra and Cynthia) are black so it's not like Broadway is trying to keep it white. 

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 12:41pm

Whateverjsays said: "And some of the biggest names on Broadway right now (Audra and Cynthia) are black so it's not like Broadway is trying to keep it white."

I don't believe you had poor intentions in making this statement, but your positioning two women as the faces of all actors of color is a reflection of the insitutional racism that is at play in casting today. Would you ever use Patti LuPone or Sutton Foster as barometers for the employment prospects of all white actors? 

If we continuously dismiss any conversations about race in the realm of casting as "color counting," we will never make any progress in this community towards dismantling insitutional racism.