Random Thoughts: Curtain Calls - Page 2

[mc1227]

Posted: 7/15/17 at 3:41pm

PatrickDC said: "I love curtain calls, particularly for musicals. I'm also interested to see the staging, which actors come on in groups, couples, singly, etc. I assume there are Equity rules for the order of actors, ensemble in groups, stars by themselves. Depending on the show, interesting to see which actor gets the final spot, particularly if a larger name/veteran is in a supporting role but the "star" is 

Sometimes curtain calls are overindulgent and a bit much. I'd put the recent Sunset Boulevard CC in that category. Clocked in at about 3 minutes with multiple entrances. Yeah, I get it, it's Glenn f'ing Close reprising one of her most well known roles. But a little much for me. Nice to see Kristen Blodgett get acknowledged. Any CC's you thought were too much, tried too hard, or didn't give actors appropriate due?  

The standing ovations at Sunset Boulevard were very thrilling to me.  I had never seen a production where there was a 3 minute standing O after a song during the show and then 3 curtain calls at the end, each one louder than the first.  It was certainly the most iconic performance I had ever seen on stage and for me, it was well deserved.  That being said, in comparison, the standing ovations at a show like Groundhog Day seems trivial, even though I was entertained, I did not stand since it wasn't that type of show or performance to me.  I'm sure many others feel differently but I feel standing ovations should occur when the show and performers are above exceptional.  However above exceptional is certainly subjective, so that's why we see as many SO nowadays.  

 

"

 

[PatrickDC]

Posted: 7/15/17 at 3:49pm

At a less than stellar or iconic performance, my friend says 98% of a SO is because one or two people, usually the first few rows of the orchestra, stand. Then the people behind the standers stand only so they can see, creating a domino effect. The rest stand just because, well, everyone else is. 

[SharksVsJets]

Posted: 7/15/17 at 3:55pm

HogansHero said: "I agree that there are a few shows where it feels wrong to have a curtain call (or where the absence might be used to good dramatic effect) but it is also important to understand that the curtain call is not for the actors; it's for the audience. So for actors to say they don't want a curtain call is like Hamlet saying I don't want to kill Polonius tonight. ??????"

I agree with this. I remember a production of Bent from many years ago where the cast opted to not have a curtain call because of the material (WWII death camps). I understand why they might want to do it that way, but as an audience member it felt unsatisfying not to be able to show appreciation for their fine performances.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Posted: 7/15/17 at 4:27pm

dramamama611 said: "Jarethan said:"Do you think the Hamilton curtain call makes any sense of ADHP2."

I'm sorry, I truly don't understand your question."

I can translate.  "of ADHP2" means ",or ADHP2".   Earlier Jarethan complained that the group curtain calls for both Hamilton and A Doll's House Part 2 deny deserving actors (for example Daveed Digga in Hamilton and Laurie Metcalf in A Dolls House) their moment in the spotlight.  You wrote that directors have reasons for what they do.  He's asking what the directors' reasons could be in the instances he cited.  Hope that helps.  

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/15/17 at 7:13pm

dramamama611 said: "Jarethan said:"Do you think the Hamilton curtain call makes any sense of ADHP2.

"

I'm sorry, I truly don't understand your question.

 

Why do only Eliza and Alexander each get solo bows, when no one else does? What was so special about Eliza's role (or, at that time, Phillippa Soo's performance) in particular, that warranted her taking a solo bow, when the performers playing Aaron Burr, Jefferson/Lafayette, Angelica, George Washington, Hercules Mulligan, and remaining cast members and were relegated to the single company bow?  

As a member of the audience, I have always enjoyed  having the opportunity to acknowledge individual performers for giving their all.  With Hamilton, that was not permitted, although Eliza gets her own bow.  At least when I saw Lin in it, you were also acknowledging the author, but that it not there case with his replacements.  The audience applauded loud and long, but not as loudly as they would have if the individual performers had taken bows, as done in most shows.

This is not exactly a world hunger issue...just one of my two peeves related to the title of the three.  The ubiquitous SO annoys me much more.

 

[morosco]

Posted: 7/15/17 at 8:31pm

I have always thought that the actress playing Peggy Sawyer should have the last bow in 42nd Street.  It's usually the actor playing Julian Marsh that gets it instead. 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 7/15/17 at 9:21pm

I remember the weirdest curtain call I ever witnessed was for a college SWEET CHARITY. Herman announced each cast member while swaying and snapping with a bob barker mic. Was really odd!

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 12:34am

SweetLips said: "I LOATH it when the audience claps along with the CC music. A performers' applause is lost amongst the noise except if they are the lead. Bow without music then cue music for final bow, curtain falls, then music continues for audience exit.

Doesn't spoilt my enjoyment of the show-just pisses me off.

and yes--I want everything MY way.....thanks.

 

I should make that a #3 on my list.  Have always hated it.  The first time I saw it was when I saw Fiddler in 1964 or 65 (Mostel was still in it) and was 14 or 15.  I suspected that the cast members must have felt silly, bowing with no real acknowledgment, because the audience was simply clapping to the music.  Ran into that recently -- I can't remember which show -- and I still found left a sour taste.

 

Updated On: 7/16/17 at 12:34 AM

[BroadwayMan5]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 1:27am

morosco said: "I have always thought that the actress playing Peggy Sawyer should have the last bow in 42nd Street.  It's usually the actor playing Julian Marsh that gets it instead. 

 

"

Totally agree.

 

I would also say the Baker deserves the final bow in Into the Woods but it's usually the Witch

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 1:45am

As an actor, I've come to prefer a full cast bow. Too many times the bow order has been questionable at best, and it often feels like some weird sort of applause competition among the actors.

That said, I also find the Hamilton bow totally baffling and it needs to be changed. It is totally insulting to the other members of the supporting cast to have Eliza get a bow but not Burr, etc.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 2:11am

I love group bows.  Most curtain calls in the UK are group bows.  I agree with those who say that the final bow in many shows are incredibly puzzling.  I recently saw a production where Cinderella recieved the final bow in Into the Woods (which is absolutely absurd).

Also, I think the Witch deserves the last bow.  The baker may be the lead on paper, but The Witch is the star.  Same reason that Fosca should recieve the final bow in Passion and Zaza/Albin often takes the final bow in La Cage Aux Folles.  I guess it would all be easier if it was a group bow. 

[theatreguy12]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 9:32am

I agree with a lot of what has been said here, be it the reasons for, and even the reasons against the CC.

I can find them to be very dramatic when done in such a way as was mentioned above for West Side Story.

And someone may have to correct me if I'm wrong as it's been so long since I've seen it, but I seem to recall the lights going down on the final scene of Cabaret, and then coming back up with the entire cast standing along the edge of the stage.  Was such a chilling thing.  I can't remember if individuals took bows on that one or if remained a group bow.

I also tend to like those rousing curtain calls such as the one from Crazy For You, and the Megamix from Joseph and the Amazing  Technicolor Dream Coat.  Those are just fun.   And the dancing can be wonderful.

I think my only issue with the CC is how do you individualize the attention to performances?  Sometimes you want to stand for the chorus because they did such a tremendous job with choreography, but then you also want to reserve that SO for the lead who you might have really been spellbound by.

When I saw Hello Dolly with Donna last week, I just loved her so much.  But how do you not stand for the chorus in that show too?  Or Creel?   Or DHP?   The way it seemed to play out was not many people stood as the chorus came out (though they did get a very rousing response).   A few stood for Creel and Baldwin.  More for DHP.  But the majority waited for Murphy.  And at that time the audience went wild. 

What often happens though is almost everyone is already on their feet by the time the leads come out anyway.  Maybe the applause erupts a bit louder when they come out, but oft times, most are on their feet by that time anyway.

I guess I really don't like or dislike them.  At times they do seem a bit mechanical though.  I love the rousing ones that incorporate dance into them though.  Those are fun.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 11:01am

theatreguy12 said: "I agree with a lot of what has been said here, be it the reasons for, and even the reasons against the CC.

I can find them to be very dramatic when done in such a way as was mentioned above for West Side Story.

And someone may have to correct me if I'm wrong as it's been so long since I've seen it, but I seem to recall the lights going down on the final scene of Cabaret, and then coming back up with the entire cast standing along the edge of the stage.  Was such a chilling thing.  I can't remember if individuals took bows on that one or if remained a group bow.

I also tend to like those rousing curtain calls such as the one from Crazy For You, and the Megamix from Joseph and the Amazing  Technicolor Dream Coat.  Those are just fun.   And the dancing can be wonderful.

I think my only issue with the CC is how do you individualize the attention to performances?  Sometimes you want to stand for the chorus because they did such a tremendous job with choreography, but then you also want to reserve that SO for the lead who you might have really been spellbound by.

When I saw Hello Dolly with Donna last week, I just loved her so much.  But how do you not stand for the chorus in that show too?  Or Creel?   Or DHP?   The way it seemed to play out was not many people stood as the chorus came out (though they did get a very rousing response).   A few stood for Creel and Baldwin.  More for DHP.  But the majority waited for Murphy.  And at that time the audience went wild. 

What often happens though is almost everyone is already on their feet by the time the leads come out anyway.  Maybe the applause erupts a bit louder when they come out, but oft times, most are on their feet by that time anyway.

I guess I really don't like or dislike them.  At times they do seem a bit mechanical though.  I love the rousing ones that incorporate dance into them though.  Those are fun.

 

This is a symptom of my issue with SOs.  Util very recently, noone would debate standing for the chorus or DHP or Creel.  They would be sitting there, applauding very loudly, and just sorta spontaneously rise as one when Midler came out, if they even stood for her.  The performance had to be considered so out of the ballpark as to justify such special recognition.  (in the original productions of Hello Dolly and Fiddler, Channing and Mostel did not get SOs either time I saw them; Lansbury got one SO in the four times I saw Mame; James Earl Jones did not get a SO for Great White Hope; nor did Zoe Caldwell either time I saw Jean Brodie, but the applause were deafening and there were more than a few 'bravos'.  The first performance I saw get SOs regularly was Angela Lansbury for Gypsy, which I saw 5 times and for which she received loud got SOs every time.  Lansbury and Cariou did not receive a single SO in the three performances the I saw Sweeney Todd, nor did George Hearn for any of the I think 3 times I saw La Cage with him.  Barbara Harris -- No; Joel Grey -- No; Katherine Hepburn -- yes, but it was Katherine Hepburn and she really got cheated out of the Tony, not that she cares; Lauren Bacall -- no.  Get my drift...these were legendary performances and the audience displayed their appreciation by hurting their hands applauding.  SOs were reserved for rare occasions (and Elizabeth Taylor).

Of course, along with the SO, I have observed two other things: applause are actually not as loud, but there is an awful lot of hooting, which is fine.  I do not remember the last time that my hands hurt from applauding so long and loud.  I have sorta stopped because it doesn't matter with all the hooting.

Even 50 years ago, I did see a SO for a show, and not an individual performance, but that was rare.  The second that Moon For the Misbegotten and, of all things, The Wiz ended, the audience was on its feet as one; this in a period where you could see every show that season and never see a SO, so there was something that just hit the audience...easy to understand with Moon, not so with the Wiz, although it had a great, emotional ending (I thought, and continue to think that The Wiz was a mediocre musical which benefitted from early adoption of TV advertising.  I'd bet money, although it can't be proven, that the Ease on Down the Road ad sold more tickets than the Pippin strut.

 

[temms]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 11:27am

The curtain call SO is a done deal. It is now customary - you clap at the end of the songs, and you stand at the end of the show to applaud. It's not so much a standing ovation as a collective leg stretch. For me the battle is the mid-show SO - the only one I had ever seen was in Patti LuPone's one-woman show post-Sunset when she sang "As If We Never Said Goodbye" which meant she was singing that song on Broadway, ALW be damned. It seemed apropos. I hear that "Bandstand" regularly got mid-show standing Os during previews. I'm sure "Bandstand" is a delightful show and I'm thrilled it's doing as well as it is, but really?

It's just going to escalate. "Eh, people fling themselves off the balcony for everything these days. I remember when flinging yourself off the balcony actually MEANT something."

[PatrickDC]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 11:43am

I wonder if the ubiquitous SO is a by-product of the changing of our culture over the last couple decades where every person is praised regardless of their effort or success, i.e., schools handing out participation ribbons and coaches not keeping score at Little League and soccer games so as to not offend the losers. As some seasoned theater goers have posted in this thread, SOs use to be the exception, not the norm. I wonder if there is a correlation. 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 11:47am

I don't think that SO's are a problem.  They're a nice way to express your appreciation to the performers on stage if they put on a phenomenal show.  That being said, I couldn't help but laugh when the audience lept to it's feet at the end of Amelie and A Bronx Tale.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 12:24pm

Two remaining points:

1.  They diminish the truly deserving SOs.  When they mean nothing, they mean nothing even when they are deserved.  I would have led the SO for Ben Platt.

2.  I only get to NYC 2 - 3 times a year, now that I am a retiree.  In Florida, I subscribe to 2 companies which are actually very good, and see a lot of the touring companies.  The 2 companies have a very high batting average, but occasional have a stinker.  I never cease to be amazed by the people who stand as if to say 'I am standing because I don't want you to think I hated the show as much as I did.'  It is silly.  Same in New England, where I usually see at least 1 thing in Ogunquit, 2 - 3 on Cape Cod and 3 - 4 in Boston.  I recently saw Spelling Bee in Cape Cod.  It was the first non SO I have seen in I don't know how long.  I assumed that was evidence that they really hated the show...or there were no ringers in the audience.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 7/16/17 at 7:50pm

"Eh, people fling themselves off the balcony for everything these days. I remember when flinging yourself off the balcony actually MEANT something."

This made me L O L!!

There is a standing O for EVERYTHING out here in Pittsburgh, high school shows, terrible college plays, the tours and local companies. I thought that when I went to Broadway it would be different but alas, no.

[rcwr]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 4:33am

I've been thinking about this SO issue. I definitely don't think they should happen by default -- that's the CC version of grade inflation. But I also don't think that if they do happen, that they should be considered more automatic or less meaningful if they happen at the beginning of the CC rather than deeper into it. I'm a huge fan of ensembles. If I see a really good show and want to stand, there's a good chance that I'll want to stand for the ensemble. That's not cheaper or more automatic than standing for featured actors and leads. Standing right away *could* mean default, but it could also mean WOW THAT ENSEMBLE.

(It's happened to me before that I wanted to stand for the ensemble but not for the rest of the cast. Imagine standing for the ensemble and then sitting down again!)

[Caroline Palicz]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 10:40am

HogansHero said: "I agree that there are a few shows where it feels wrong to have a curtain call (or where the absence might be used to good dramatic effect) but it is also important to understand that the curtain call is not for the actors; it's for the audience. So for actors to say they don't want a curtain call is like Hamlet saying I don't want to kill Polonius tonight. "

 

Agreed - when I saw Falsettos, which has a horribly sad ending with Christian Borle's character crying super hard as well as the rest of the cast, it felt strange to suddenly go into a curtain call - especially with a small cast, there wasn't more than a minute between characters mourning and actors bowing. It was one of the more toned down curtain calls for sure - simple bows, I don't remember but I doubt they sang at all. But it also would have felt even more out of place not to have one, and that cast more than deserved to be applauded. With tougher material/endings though I can see why some casts opt not to have a CC.

 

[SarahNYC2]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 10:49am

Interesting thread. I started going to the theater with my mom and grandma at age 4 (I'm 43 now). I was brought up not doing a SO unless it was some super special actor/actress in a performance. So I am super uncomfortable with the SO starting from what seems like the first person coming out during the CC. I actually usually don't stand until closer to the lead coming out. 

[After Eight]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 11:07am

I loved the curtain calls for Milk and Honey, Hello, Dolly!, Mame, Dear World, The Student Gypsy and Jennie, to name those which come most readily to mind. I loved the exit music for Georgy.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 11:16am

I enjoy them to the extent I've enjoyed the show or some performances in it.

What I find annoying is the compulsion to stand if one doesn't feel like standing.
On Broadway, where standing ovations are all but obligatory, if one doesn't particularly feel like joining on one's feet, one is faced with the choice of being coopted into doing so or instead of being able to watch the curtain call, spending the next minutes face to butt with the person in front of you.

Updated On: 7/24/17 at 11:16 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 12:46pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "As an actor, I've come to prefer a full cast bow. Too many times the bow order has been questionable at best, and it often feels like some weird sort of applause competition among the actors.

That said, I also find the Hamilton bow totally baffling and it needs to be changed. It is totally insulting to the other members of the supporting cast to have Eliza get a bow but not Burr, etc.

 

"

 

I would hope that once an actor leaves high school (or maybe college) being "insulted" by a curtain call is long a thing of the past.   

 

 

[greenifyme2]

Posted: 7/24/17 at 12:53pm

I usually don't stand until the leads come out unless I am floored by the entire cast/show.... which has admittedly happened a lot this past season. Perhaps it seems like SO's are the norm now because this season has been just so incredible, IMO far superior to the last 6 years I've lived here.