Interview: 'It's definitely not an easy process, but it has been great and beautiful' Daniel Krikler on THE PIANIST
'It develops as we go, which is beautiful in the sense of making the show the best it can be, but it definitely makes it scarier in some ways'
After a run at Mayflower Studios Southampton this month, Thom Southerland’s adaptation of Wladyslaw Szpilman’s memoir, The Piano, is coming to the Park Theatre in London. The show brings Szpilman’s true story to the stage, accompanied by the musician’s own music. Recently, we had the chance to speak with Daniel Krikler, who plays Wladyslaw Szpilman in The Pianist. We discussed how he prepared to take on the role of Szpilman, what it has been like participating in a show with actor-musicians and even why he wants to erase the labels of plays and musicals.
How did you first get started in the world of theatre?
When I was really young, my mum tried to get me to do dance and acting classes, but I was a bit too shy to be honest! So I went to a couple and then didn't do anything. And then when I was fourteen - I don’t know exactly why - I just went on my mum's computer, printed off the forms for a Saturday school and then never looked back from there. It's one where you do an hour singing, an hour acting, an hour dancing - you rotate. I just loved it, and I remember being like, “Oh, this is what I'm going to do.” And at that time, my mum and dad were very much like, “Oh, it's a phase, a thing you're enjoying,” especially my dad. And then I just got more and more into it!
And what made you want to be a part of The Pianist? Had you been familiar with the book or the movie before joining?
Yes - I'd read the memoir, and I'd seen the movie. I've only seen the movie once, and since being attached, I've not seen it. I'm sure I’ll watch it again at some point, but [I’m] glad that it's not very fresh in my head, actually. Especially because of the amount of people who are like, “Oh my God, it's one of the best movies of all time!”
No pressure!
Yeah! And everyone seems to be really obsessed with that Adrien [Brody] learned to play piano, and he lost loads of weight. Everyone's really obsessed with, “Are you going to lose weight?” Well, it's slightly tricky because it's a play! And also, the way we're doing it is different. So that's interesting. And it's a big part of my family heritage and history. Two of my grandparents are Holocaust survivors, so I knew that story a bit, and lots of parallel stories in my family, unfortunately.
What was your research process like to understand Wladyslaw Szpilman?
I read the memoir again a couple of times, and did lots of other bits of research. I read a couple more books about other experiences from the Warsaw Ghetto and just Warsaw and Germany. I'm definitely much more familiar with Germany during the war than I am with Poland, especially Warsaw. So I quite love reading, which is always really fun! That's such a fun period, before you have the pressure of learning text and getting off book - just that knowledge accumulation time where you get to be like, “I'm going to just learn and understand.”
How does it change for you preparing to be a character like Wladyslaw Szpilman versus Peter Pan, who you recently played at the Barbican?
Obviously, this is a real character in real situations, and Peter is not. But equally, our version of that story was so based on J.M. Barrie's life and story and how he came from it, and the script that Ella [Hickson]’s written is full of all the loss that is in his life. It's still fun and imaginative and beautiful, but there's so much loss in that story. They're both very sad, but he's a mythical, mystical creature, Peter, isn't he? So, to be honest, the prep of that was a lot more physical - sword fighting, flying prep, circus skills and things, so it was certainly more joyful. Although, to be honest, when you do those sorts of roles, the physical stuff is so high that the scene work and your acting tend to fall to the bottom. You spend the least amount of time and process on that, whereas a play like this is so much meatier in terms of scene after scene after scene.
And how have the rehearsals been going for the show so far?
Great! Really great, intense. We're just chipping away. The process is amazing in that, obviously, we have the memoir as our reference point. And Thom [Southerland], our director, has done a couple of workshops with the piece, so it exists in a form, but it's also an unfinished thing. It develops as we go, which is beautiful in the sense of making the show the best it can be, but it definitely makes it scarier in some ways and harder brain-wise because I can't start learning lines until we get to the end and know what it is. So that's frightening. But our version is more of a memory play where you have this man who is reflecting and thinking about his life. So I'm doing a lot of narration. In some ways, he's as much the narrator as he is the protagonist. But it's a beautiful process.
And we have the most incredible musicians on stage, acting, singing and playing. It is very filmic - a lot of the music is underscoring moments. And Simon [Lee]'s orchestration is just incredible as well. And that's amazing in terms of how much it gives an audience. In a way, it makes it easy for us, acting-wise! You're not having to do as much because all that ambiance and mise en scène is created by that music. But sometimes, we're finding it's doing the opposite of what you want it to do, so then you have to fight it. And then there's a technical or practical element which needs to fit. Whatever text I'm saying has to fit in that music. So sometimes it's like, “Talk really, really fast for this bit, and then just gently drag this bit out so it fits.” It's great, though. It's amazing. It's intense, and it's obviously sad and upsetting in certain elements. You can't shy away from the narrative and the things that happen, so it's tough. It's definitely not an easy process, but it has been great and beautiful.
You mentioned before how this and Peter Pan have dark tones. How do you keep emotionally healthy while you're doing these plays about difficult subjects?
You know what? It's really funny. I think the most miserable I've been working on a show is when I did Mamma Mia!, and I was having to just grin for three hours! Some of that is really soul-destroying. Maybe that says a lot more about me! The whole thing impacts me, but it doesn't impact me in a way. You are acting, so you're in a space - you're upset, or you're unhappy - and then you leave that space. I go home and I get on with my life. We've definitely come up against times where people are upset, or things are triggering. I'd be much more frightened if I wasn't feeling those things. If you aren't struggling with this material, then you probably shouldn't be doing this material. So the fact that it's so consistently abhorrent and upsetting to me makes me think, “Okay, you're still fine.” But yeah, you're acting. And acting, for me, doesn't mean that you're faking these things that you're pretending, but it also doesn't mean it's happening to you, and you know that. If you think it's happening to you, you're insane. It's just being aware of whatever that fine line between you and a character is, and then you move away from it. So for me, I tend not to be made depressed by a depressing show. I also like Mamma Mia, by the way! I just struggle to be in it, but I do think it's great.
Can you tell us more about how you're incorporating piano playing into The Pianist?
Yeah! So I'm playing a very minimal amount of piano. Not to give too much away, but it's not going to be an hour and a half of me sitting and playing piano. We have Malcolm [Forbes-Peckham], a phenomenal pianist and musical director, who's playing most of it. And Thom's vision for the show, way before I was involved, was to do with being a memory play and this person looking back on his life, which enables him to step in and out of those scenes. It frees him up to be able to move around that space a lot. And we have almost a PTSD-type situation of his relationship to music and the piano. So a lot is more to do with psychologically trying to come back to the piano. From the response we had workshop-wise, it works as a kind of construct, as an idea, so I believe in it. Hopefully it's beautiful and good.
I feel like this play is in between a play and a musical. It's not like something you've been in previously, like Natasha, Pierre, and the Great Comet of 1812, that's sung through, but then it's also not a straight play, as you have the actor-musicians in it. What is that like?
Again, you have to ask everyone! I call it a musical because there's music in it. The official line is it's a musical adaptation. But for me, the difference between a play and a musical is totally arbitrary! There are many incredible plays full of music, and many musicals with lots of acting. So to me, I'd love to just be able to move away from that distinction, for it to just be theatre. I have my musical theatre friends being like, “Oh, why do you do plays? I hate plays!” and people who do plays being like, “Oh, I hate musicals,” and I'm like, “It's all theatre, right?” For you to hate one part of theatre and love another, it's just weird to me. But I would call it musical. There's lots of acting and singing. Broadly, the music doesn't drive a narrative. The music that we're using is either accompaniment or songs, all of which are written by Wladyslaw Szpilman. Sometimes they're more 1930s or earlier pop songs, that era of Gershwin. A lot of that stuff that he wrote earlier, and then a lot of big, sweeping, more dramatic orchestrations. So it's definitely not Great Comet or Fiddler on the Roof territory, but I would still class it as a musical because there's lots of singing and music. But I feel like people will decide for themselves. I also think “play with music” as a term is slightly pejorative, being like, “I don't like musicals, so I'll call this a play with music.” And, as you've seen, I love musicals, so I think we should just all love everything!
What do you hope audiences take away from The Pianist?
That really is the hardest question! In a way, as an actor, I don't have to stress about that so much. You get to step in and do it. I'm sure directors have to worry about that more. What we collectively hope is that it's a narrative of music literally saving someone's life, so that is uplifting in and of itself. It’s this person who survived through music and wouldn't have survived without it, and then returned to music and performed and created. So that's one side of it. And then one layer deeper to me would be about saving culture as a concept - it becomes a higher thing. The idea of saving art and art being a thing that we cherish and value, and that's the thing we're trying to save. As an individual who happens to have an ability to create art, that seems to be a thing - what's the point in saving anything if you lose culture and art? The flip of that, my fear, I suppose, is that survival stories mean sometimes we can more easily forget the millions of people who are not saved because of the music. By definition, the people who were telling these stories were saved, and the people who were killed were not able to. Just because this one man survived, millions of artists weren't able to - so much of that was lost. So it can't be totally hopeful.
And finally, how would you describe The Pianist in one word?
You know thought-provoking? This is soul-provoking.
The Pianist runs from 9 to 12 September at Mayflower Studios Southampton and then from 15 October to 28 November at the Park Theatre.
Photo Credit: Richard Lakos
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