Why do people say that men can't belt?

[Patti_LuPone_Fan]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 8:08pm

If a baritone can sing his high A in chest voice, how is that not belting

If a tenor can get that top D out in chest, how is that not belting

If a bass can croak out his top F or G how it that not belting

Belting is singing in chest voice above your break with power.

Please someone explain to me how men can't belt.
Updated On: 10/24/09 at 08:08 PM

[Weez]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 8:31pm

It's either because people are dumb, or because the definition of belting has some technicality that means it only applies to women. I firmly believe it's the former, but I've no doubt someone'll be along in a minute to tell us why we're wrong and why it's DEFINITELY the latter.

[Patti_LuPone_Fan]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 9:29pm

BUMP

[TheatreFreak05]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 9:59pm

I am a guy and I think that we can belt.

[singtopher]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 10:24pm

I think this misconception comes from the idea that "traditionally" men have always used their chest voice and "traditionally" women have used a head voice.

[Soliantu]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 10:48pm

okay. men CAN belt, but the original post is not entirely accurate.. to say that "if a baritone can get an A out with his chest voice.. how is that not belting" is not accurate.. if you hear an operatic male singing a higher note with proper support and all that it is often a head voice/chest voice blend although it may not sound like that.. which is a healthy singing technique... projecting a note and belting it aren't the same thing.. although it's difficult to explain.. To me with belting generally it seems like it's being made more in the throat, than when it's not belting.. and it's more of a slam/supported yell when it's a belt..

There are plenty of male belters though.. watch Adam Lambert singing "Is Anybody Listening" that would be considered belting... where as if you listen to Brian Stokes Mitchell singing Were Thine That Special Face.. the last note, although a very big note.. would not be considered belting.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 10/24/09 at 11:54pm

Because the term as MUSICAL THEATRE SLANG originated in musical halls in the 19th century and was used to describe WOMEN who were singing in chest - (i.e. non lyrical soprano or operetta voice).

In other words it originated as a style definition - not a technique.

I would consider the term belting to definitely be feminine and the men most people would even think of as belters are people like Sam Harris and Adam Lambert who seem to be more influenced by the great female divas than other male singers.

As a man who sings I personally would never want somebody to call me a belter - no matter how loud or high I could go up the scales.

[bwaylvsong]

Posted: 10/25/09 at 12:02am

^That's EXACTLY what I was thinking and couldn't put in words.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 10/25/09 at 12:05am

If you are a man and want people to call you a belter, I imagine you also want to be called fierce, fabulous and diva.

Nothing wrong with that of course. Just polish the ruby slippers before hitting the microphone.

[darquegk]

Posted: 10/25/09 at 12:07am

Then is there a similar phrase, slang-wise, for a man singing in that fashion?

A guy who can just power it out above the break without a touch of proper classical, operatic technique and just let loose with one "BAP BAP BAP" high Eb after another?

[bwaylvsong]

Posted: 10/25/09 at 12:12am

Rock tenor

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 10/25/09 at 12:14am

Rock tenor. Thats how you describe say the lead singer of Journey, Steve Perry.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 10/25/09 at 8:48am

Doesn't this fall under the same lines as men sing in falsetto, but women do not?

[devilish23]

Posted: 10/25/09 at 5:15pm

Michael Bennet you are hillarious!

[Soaring29]

Posted: 1/21/17 at 8:13am

In my opinion, no, not quite.  The  common, somewhat mistaken definition of belting being a sound that is created by singing with a substantial amount of chest voice in one's range   lends itself  much more  to the female voice then  to the male voice.

 In the female voice, a woman creates a belt like sound by bringing up a substantial amount of  TA activity(TA=Thyroidarytenoid/vocalis muscle, an intrinsic laryngeal muscle  that is dominant in chest voice) past her primo passagio, a shift that normally occurs somewhere between an E-Flat 4 and a G4, depending on the voice type. In classical singing as well as in non belted singing, a woman would normally  switch into a CT dominant(  CT=Cricothyroid Muscle, an intrinsic laryngeal muscle that is  dominant in head voice) mix at that point, retaining some  amount of chest voice, but gradually increasing more and more head voice as the scale progresses through her extensive middle register, eventually passing through the upper middle range and passing through  the second passaggio into  full head voice, the latter  shift occurring between an E-flat 5 and an A-Flat 5, depending on the voice type. In belted singing, a woman increases her chest voice above her first passaggio, violating the Melba Point  rule of never allowing chest beyond an E-Flat 4. That said, a woman must be able to retain  some CT activity  while belting, because pushing  an extreme amount of chest voice  as far as it can go will prove injurious to the vocal instrument . Somewhere around a C-Sharp 5 to E-Flat 5, a woman must transition into a very strong CT dominant belt sound that still maintains TA activity, but not allowing that to be dominant and thus preventing the  possibility of injury. This sound can be carried up as far as the female is capable of doing(Indeed, some women can belt the soprano  High C!!). 

 

The male voice, on the other hand, is a different animal:  Men have a much smaller transition area  in regards to registration then a woman does due to the fact that men speak largely in a TA dominant sound,  while a woman's speech  inflection range includes much more CT dominance along with TA dominance then the male. A man can indeed bring up chest voice into his upper middle range (Referred to as the Zona Di Passaggio) and into the upper range in order to produce a belt like sound, but must allow it to become a strong balance between both CT activity and TA  activity.   It is controversial in the vocal pedagogy world, but notes roughly above an E-Flat 4, E4, F4,   F-Sharp 4, or G4(All  second passagio points in the male voice , depending on the individual singer) are sung in a powerful CT dominant sound in operatic singing, even though one   may feel/hear notes  above their second passagio as chest voice when executing these notes correctly.   In  the musical theatre/contemporary singing world, this  sound  produced by the male vocalist is normally  more CT dominant with a different vocal tract shape(i.e resonance)  then it would be for classical singing, although there are many different variations on how one's registration/resonance models are in non classical styles.  

So, in a nutshell,   registration in female voices aligns more closely with the somewhat misnomer definition of belting then registration in male voices do, mostly because of how  different  registration in belting is  for women then the type of registration that is used in classical singing/non belted singing. Men must ALWAYS allow, (even  though there are variations depending on the style),   some release of TA activity  when transitioning into the head register. Women do not. 

 

 

 

 

Updated On: 1/21/17 at 08:13 AM

[JennH]

Posted: 1/21/17 at 10:16am

Soaring29 said: "In my opinion, no, not quite.  The  common, somewhat mistaken definition of belting being a sound that is created by singing with a substantial amount of chest voice in one's range   lends itself  much more  to the female voice then  to the male voice.

 In the female voice, a  woman creates a belt like sound by bringing up a substantial amount of  TA activity(TA=Thyroidarytenoid/vocalis muscle, an intrinsic laryngeal muscle  that is dominant in chest voice) past her primo passagio, a shift that normally occurs somewhere between an E-Flat 4 and a G4, depending on the voice type. In classical singing as well as in non belted singing, a woman would normally  switch into a CT dominant(  CT=Cricothyroid Muscle, an intrinsic laryngeal muscle that is  dominant in head voice) mix at that point, retaining some  amount of chest voice, but gradually increasing more and more head voice as the scale progresses through her extensive middle register, eventually passing through the upper middle range and passing through  the second passaggio into  full head voice, the latter  shift occurring between an E-flat 5 and an A-Flat 5, depending on the voice type. In belted singing, a woman increases her chest voice above her first passaggio, violating the Melba Point  rule of never allowing chest beyond an E-Flat 4. That said, a woman must be able to retain  some CT activity  while belting, because pushing  an extreme amount of chest voice  as far as it can go will prove injurious to the vocal instrument . Somewhere around a C-Sharp 5 to E-Flat 5, a woman must transition into a very strong CT dominant belt sound that still maintains TA activity, but not allowing that to be dominant and thus preventing the  possibility of injury. This sound can be carried up as far as the female is capable of doing(Indeed, some women can belt the soprano  High C!!). 

 

The male voice, on the other hand, is a different animal:  Men have a much smaller transition area  in regards to registration then a woman does due to the fact that men speak largely in a TA dominant sound,  while a woman's speech  inflection range includes much more CT dominance along with TA dominance then the male. A man can indeed bring up chest voice into his upper middle range (Referred to as the Zona Di Passaggio) and into the upper range in order to produce a belt like sound, but must allow it to become a strong balance between both CT activity and TA  activity.   It is controversial in the vocal pedagogy world, but notes roughly above an E-Flat 4, E4, F4,   F-Sharp 4, or G4(All  second passagio points in the male voice , depending on the individual singer) are sung in a powerful CT dominant sound in operatic singing, even though one   may feel/hear notes  above their second passagio as chest voice when executing these notes correctly.   In  the musical theatre/contemporary singing world, this  sound  produced by the male vocalist is normally  more CT dominant with a different vocal tract shape(i.e resonance)  then it would be for classical singing, although there are many different variations on how one's registration/resonance models are in non classical styles.  

So, in a nutshell,   registration in female voices aligns more closely with the somewhat misnomer definition of belting then registration in male voices do, mostly because of how  different  registration in belting is  for women then the type of registration that is used in classical singing/non belted singing. Men must ALWAYS allow, (even  though there are variations depending on the style),   some release of TA activity  when transitioning into the head register. Women do not. 

 

 

 

 

 

"

HERE YOU ARE, LADIES AND GENTS!! Soaring, will you marry me?????

 

And dramamama, your "question" is basically the super short version of the above, so yes. It's all about vocal pedagogy and how men's and women's voices function, and obviously they function differently. 

Updated On: 1/21/17 at 10:16 AM

[gypsy101]

Posted: 1/21/17 at 4:58pm

what is up with this bumping of 8-10 year old threads lately lol

also, i'm a man and i belt.

[Gabby Hayes]

Posted: 1/22/17 at 4:48am

real men do not belt

[Soaring29]

Posted: 1/22/17 at 4:52am

I think it's fun! Just because it's old doesn't mean it should be forgotten! 

Based on the  original question by the OP  and the  common definition of belting, it is my opinion that men do not belt. You can refer back to my first post to see why I think so. That said, people often learn singing in ways that don't necessarily correlate perfectly with the actual anatomy of the voice  and feel things physiologically that aren't necessarily what is happening anatomically, but  by a certain perspective, are still correct in  their methods of learning/feeling what they do in singing because these beliefs work for them and help them create the ideal sound for their instrument, much more so then if somebody tried to apply the anatomical facts literally. So, you aren't necessarily wrong at all, but just  correct from a different perspective. 

 

 

[broadwayguy91]

Posted: 1/22/17 at 5:12am

that was an interesting read, soaring29. :)

[cmassoud]

Posted: 1/22/17 at 5:54am

I thought your post was interesting too Soaring29, and very informative

[Soaring29]

Posted: 1/22/17 at 7:19pm

Thank you so much everyone!! I appreciate it!! Especially my future fiancee Jen H!! 

Updated On: 1/22/17 at 07:19 PM

[JennH]

Posted: 1/22/17 at 10:14pm

Soaring29 said: "Thank you so much everyone!! I appreciate it!! Especially my future fiancee Jen H!! 

 

"

Oh I was just thrilled beyond measure at the best explanation ever to this question!! 

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 1/22/17 at 10:38pm

As a man who belts, men can certainly belt.  Maybe not "technically", but we sure as hell try.