HOLLER hollerin' away?- Page 2

[Blactor]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 2:59pm

Newintown,

As someone who used to listen to a LOT of hip-hop (I find it pretty boring these days), I see where you're coming from in terms of the label of Producer vs. Composer. As has been stated already, typically in the Hip-Hop world the "Producer" is understood as the person that COMPOSED the beat/track that the lyricist is rhyming over.

Any while it's true that many hip-hop producers don't have a background in composing, or even music theory (not that that has stopped song-writers in other genres), there are DEFINITELY hip-hop producers that UNDERSTAND music through intuition and practice.

That's why people like Dr. Dre, Timbaland, Pharell (of the group N.E.R.D....who wrote the popular song "Happy"), Missy Elliot, Outkast, and reaching back further to folks like Pete Rock, DJ Premiere, RZA, and a prolific producer named J-Dilla (whom I consider to be the greatest hip-hop producer of all time, he died of Lupus many years ago), have had such long and varied careers. These people have an understanding of and respect for music, and were usually heavily influenced by jazz, R&B, rock & roll, and soul music of the generations before them. Listen to Andre3000's "Love Below" album, or Mos Def's "Black on Both Sides", and while they are definitely hip-hop records, there's a LOT of musicality (Andre's album even includes an uptempo instrumental cover of "My Favorite Things").

It's off-topic but I did want to throw in my two cents--as rapper Talib Kweli once said, there's a difference between someone who makes music vs. someone who just "makes beats".

Okay, enough thread-jacking :)

Updated On: 6/25/14 at 02:59 PM

[roadmixer]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 3:18pm

True that payroll runs Tuesday to Sunday regardless of the actual day off typically....

[newintown]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 3:18pm

All good points, Blactor, although Andre Benjamin has proved himself an adept real composer with his totally musical movie Idlewild, and several theatrical projects that (I believe) never came to full production. (I mean "music" here as extensive and more varied use of pitch, prosody, etc. in addition to rhythm.)

And there are vocal (sung) lines in Holler that are not attributed to anyone as far as I can tell, even Shakur. (There is no "music" credit at all on the title page of the Playbill.)

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 3:19pm

But as addressed in the previews thread for you, someone posted a picture of an entire page of music credits. So there are composer credits... just not in the usual form that you are used to.

[newintown]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 3:21pm

Did they? I never saw it - I remember that thread, and the last I recall, no one could find music credits. Perhaps I stopped reading it too soon.

Were those credits on the title page, or buried in the back?

EDIT: I just went through that thread - no photo of a music credit, but there was one comment from Whizzer: " I found a "music credits" page in the back in small print. The first song, My Block, has EIGHT people credited for writing the music. All lyrics are by Tupac."

You may disagree, but I think music (in a musical) deserves more visible credit.
Updated On: 6/25/14 at 03:21 PM

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 3:53pm

Yeah, the music credits are all there, but they are hidden away on a back page like a bunch of footnotes in tiny print. There are many names attributed to each one of the songs.

If this had been an original score and it won the Tony, would all of these people have shared the award?

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 3:56pm

Would this be eligible for best original score? If the music is all new, but the lyrics are previously written, would that count as 50% of the material being new? (I'm not sure if all the music is new anyway)

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 3:57pm

Whizzer. I'm not sure that hypothetical can even be considered, since it seems now the only time an original score actually has multiple writing teams is the works commissioned by TheatreWorks.

ETA: I meant "original for the stage." Not "original" and then used in some kind of musical. Updated On: 6/25/14 at 03:57 PM

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 4:05pm

Regarding the music credit, the music is hidden in the Bullets Over Broadway playbill in the same way. Not that it's okay, it's terrible, but it seems to be a trend.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 4:07pm

No, this would never be considered an original score. The lyrics and music are old. I think it should be eligible for best orchestrations though. It's the arranger who worked magic here, not a composer.

But what if all the people credited for writing/producing these songs all came together and had written this set of 22 numbers originally for the show? Like they all sat down at a roundtable and collaboratively wrote the score (or different groups of them wrote different numbers). They would have all be eligible for best score then, no?

newintown, To give you some more idea of the credits:

"Me Against the World" Burt Bacharach, Hal David, Yafeu Fula, Malcolm Greenridge, Kenneth Karlin, Minnie Riperton, Richard Rudolph, Carsten Schack, Tupac Amaru Shakur, Leon Ware

"Dear Mama" Bruce Andrew Hawes, Joseph B Jefferson, Tony Pizarro, Joe Sample, Tupac Amaru Shakur, Charles Simmons

"California Love" Mutah W Beale, Rufus Lee Cooper, Malcolm Greenridge, Tyruss Gerald Himes, Johnny Lee Jackson, Tupac Amaru Shakur

Updated On: 6/25/14 at 04:07 PM

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 4:08pm

Easy to. say retrospectively, but thus was a bit mad to take one of Broadway's biggest theatres, should of gone off Broadway all along.

[anmiller07]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 6:42pm

If anyone can PM me and point me in the direction of comps I would greatly appreciate it. Would like to see this Saturday afternoon.

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 6:58pm

"But what if all the people credited for writing/producing these songs all came together and had written this set of 22 numbers originally for the show? Like they all sat down at a roundtable and collaboratively wrote the score (or different groups of them wrote different numbers). They would have all be eligible for best score then, no? "

I would think so. Working had six different composers, all of whom were listed as nominees in the best score category.

And when one considers the numbers of producers who traipse up on stage as winners of Tony Awards, it would seem, the more the merrier!

[Playbilly]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 9:25pm

Just how did Kenny Leon get involved in this?

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/25/14 at 9:48pm

Sounds like he has been involved for 5 years, and came up with the whole concept to some degree. So, he's not just a hired hand as a director on this one.

[ivandixon2]

Posted: 6/27/14 at 7:42pm

Can anyone recall a musical grossing less than $200,000/wk in a theatre the size of the Palace; with negative reviews; bad word-of-mouth; no advance, etc.....that still manages to stay open?

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 6/27/14 at 8:40pm

Rich producers that believe in this show waaaay too much.

[ACL2006]

Posted: 6/28/14 at 10:51am

I guess this show will live to see another week.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 6/28/14 at 12:21pm

Has not anyone made the producers aware that we have done the financial analysis and decided they should have closed a week ago? Why do they continue to defy us like this?

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/28/14 at 12:25pm

We've already decided to close Once and Rock of Ages, too, but still... it's almost like they don't read these boards. We're just trying to save them money!

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 6/28/14 at 12:28pm

^ I know. What's their problem?

[ethan231h]

Posted: 6/28/14 at 12:38pm

interesting how the show is only on sale through the end of August.

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/28/14 at 12:42pm

^^ Or January 4.

http://www.ticketmaster.com/holler-if-ya-hear-me-new-york-new-york-01-04-2015/event/03004C7CC8B8B59C?artistid=1980906&majorcatid=10002&minorcatid=207&tm_link=search_msg-0_03004C7CC8B8B59C

[ethan231h]

Posted: 6/28/14 at 12:55pm

oh, cause on their website it shows its on sale through August.

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/28/14 at 1:00pm

I think that bit is meant to show the upcoming performance schedule, but the Buy Tickets link above it goes to Ticketmaster.

Like the show, a lot of the action depicted on the website happens elsewhere.