MISS SAIGON IN THE CINEMA- Page 6

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 9:36pm

I've never thought Chris was portrayed as a "good guy," I always got the feeling he was supposed to be an example of the way Americans try to go in and "save" people/countries that maybe they can't really help but end up mucking about and making bad situations worse or at least more complicated. I wanna say there's even a line that blatantly says that. Maybe I'm thinking too deeply but just my opinion.

[South Florida]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 9:44pm

You're right Mr. Nowack.  I feel better now.

 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 9:54pm

Happy to ease your mind SF. It's a very similar theme to the book "The Quiet American" that I read once in school.

[Oak2]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:14pm

I think the  line you might be thinking of was something like "I'm an American, how could I fail to do good?!" That line, and especially the whole American Dream sequence, definitely struck through to me that the musical was satirizing a lot of the popular views of America and especially how America views itself in the foreign sphere. While I disagree necessarily that Chris is entirely bad, I found everyone somewhat nuanced enough to not really hate anyone. Though even though Kim was the most obviously sympathetic and the biggest sufferer, I still ended up finding myself sympathizing a lot with The Engineer too for some reason, even if he was an ass. But I guess part of that is that him also being the show's comic relief softens him a bit I guess. He felt more like the star than anything else to me half the time.

[South Florida]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:18pm

Good job Oak2.

 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:41pm

I definitely agree there is a lot of nuance. The Engineer especially is so sleazy and manipulative, but he has that whole "do what you need to survive" deal going on and obviously he has had an extremely hard life. That's one of the things I love about the show, there's a lot of moral ambiguity and nothing is Black and White.

I have to go back to the radio broadcast to find the line I'm thinking of, it wasn't the "how can I fail to do good" line although that does about the same thing.

[morosco]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:47pm

I still cringe when I hear that "I'm not the maid" lyric.

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:56pm

 No character is really innocent, I think that is what makes the show so good to me. Each character is flawed, none are perfectly righteous. 

I whole heartedly agree with the idea of Chris being the symbol of America trying to be the good in the world, while managing to make things a more complicated mess. America really is good at that, but dammit we try so hard.

The engineer represents the darker, greedier side of capitalism, another dark mirror in the face of the states.

Kim isn't completely without fault either. She essentially tricks Chris into a marriage that he didn't know he was in. Sure, he intended to many her, but at the point that all of the girls are singing Dju Vui Vai he isn't aware that he is marrying her. She tells him that it's what all of the girls sing at weddings and they are singing it because they don't know what else to sing, prety much reassuring him that it's not really real. However, from then on, she refers to him as her husband. She is really represents a struggle over the loss of innocence. She starts so pure and tries so hard to maintain her virtue, but she gets a husband through a white lie; she kills a man, but does it to save her child; she turns to dancing and implied prostitution, but does it to get back to her husband; and in the end she takes her own life. Don't think I'm knocking Kim. I'm not. This all makes her a nice round character. She isn't a mere damsel in distress, waiting for her prince to return and rescue her. She takes an active role in her destiny. She makes choices, and each of those choices affect her as well as everyone else in the story.

I think that is why we can empathize with each of the characters. Each character is forced to make some very tough, but realistic choices, and that comes to life beautifully here. Each character represents something we can recognize in ourselves.

 

[jsg03jd]

Posted: 9/23/16 at 11:50pm

Was a verse cut out of WHAT A WASTE?  It seemed the opening of the Bangkok scene was trimmed for the cinecast.  At least it seemed that way to me.

Updated On: 9/24/16 at 11:50 PM

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 12:37am

jsg03jd said: "Was a verse cut out of WHAT A WASTE?  It seemed the opening of the Bangkok scene was trimmed for the cineast.  At least it seemed that way to me.

 

"

Yes, and I believe it was the one where the Engineer sings, "Screw the Siamese." During the first intermission, I was talking with my friend about how the new production cut some racist terms like "Chinks," while still keeping (somewhat reasonably in context) "Siamese" according to the cast recording. However, we didn't find the specific verse containing the word included in the screening.

Updated On: 9/24/16 at 12:37 AM

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 12:59am

Oak2, the specific lines I was remembering were the ones immediately before and after the one you cited. The full stanza sums it up pretty succinctly:

"So I wanted to save and protect her

Christ I'm an American how can I fail to do good?

All I made was a mess, just like everyone else

In a place of mystery that I never once understood"

[Chowd95]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 1:10am

I definitely remember one of the songs being shorter last night, that must have been it.  Would like to add, considering the little of the sets we could actually see, that the Bangkok one was underwhelming compared to the original production.  8:58 here,, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3-Q-x2uW0

I did really enjoy the whole thing though, despite almost everything being close-up and shot like a music video.  

[ggersten]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 12:25pm

I too thought What A Waste (Bangkok) was somehow truncated.  I don't know why or wherefore.

At the Prince Edward, the Bangkok scenery was minimal, but was more than made up for with all of the bits going on.  The filmed version put more emphasis on the Engineer's boss, whom I barely recall.  

[Oak2]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 1:04pm

Mr. Nowack, glad you could find the full one. I only specifically remembered that one line as standing out to me just from the sheer...camp? melodrama? of it. But I agree, it all together really shines a light on what the real meaning of Chris's whole character is.

Also, someone made a comment regarding it earlier, but I did notice what seemed to be a reference to Book of Mormon within the Bangkok scene. There was also a comment which sounded like it might have been a reference to La Cage Aux Folles, but I wasn't sure. If these were intentional, those were nice little easter eggs.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 1:44pm

Camp and melodrama are definitely afoot in that line, one of the several not-so-subtle moments in the show. It's so on the nose, almost to the point of being ridiculously so.

[Wildcard]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 4:30pm

The Mormon actually says "Hello" in the stage show and is enamored by the male leather dancer. 

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 9:18pm

I liked Maybe. It made me feel more sympathetic to Ellen. She came across as less selfish and a "nicer" person than the other Ellen's I've seen . The song implies that she's considering the possibility  that maybe Chris married her out of confusion and depression and Kim is his real true love. Maybe. It added depth and shading to her character. 

It's not organic to the character, though, IMO.  Ellen doesn't seem like the type of person who would immediately think that.  And I always thought that her reaction in the earlier versions, though not 100% sympathetic, was at least understandable.  This I didn't understand at all.

As far as Chris being a good guy, they give him the line "I used to love getting stoned, waking up with some whore."  So he's not really shown as a "good guy" IMO, more just that he's sick of everything.  I still maintain, though, that he's extremely dumb and that's what caused this whole mess, anyway. Like, all he had to do was bring Kim with him to the embassy that day.  

I also thought that their portrayal of John was a bit darker, since it looked to me like he's the one who was mean to Gigi (or am I wrong?)

[jsg03jd]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 11:33pm

Wildcard said: "The Mormon actually says "Hello" in the stage show and is enamored by the male leather dancer. 

 

 

Yes!  I remember that male go go boy when I saw the West End revival in November 2015 because that character was definitely NOT in the original Drury Lane and Broadway Theatre productions.

Thanks to the folks for confirming WHAT A WASTE was trimmed.  Glad I've not lost my mind completely.

 

Updated On: 9/24/16 at 11:33 PM

[jsg03jd]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 11:41pm

SporkGoddess said: "Yeah, I disliked about 90% of the lyric changes. Some were better but most of them weren't. 

 

Fitting TOO MUCH FOR ONE HEART in what used to be PLEASE is cringe worthy.  It makes me wonder if the guy who wrote the revised/additional lyrics got paid by the word because almost all the major numbers have lyric changes even if it's just one or two words like in THE LAST NIGHT OF THE WORLD, WHY GOD WHY? and I'D GIVE MY LIFE FOR YOU.  It's not really noticeable unless you've memorized the libretto as it was frozen by 1995.  MAYBE of course doesn't count because it's a new song, one I first heard in the Diana Huey led production at Signature Theater in Virginia in 2013.  But it still doesn't do anything for me.  I disliked MAYBE then and still do.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/24/16 at 11:55pm

Ellen doesn't seem like the type of person who would immediately think that

That's what makes it seem like an out of place song for me, it just doesn't strike me as a believable reaction to what's happening. Considering the possibility that maybe Chris always loved Kim and not her yes, but the song doesn't incorporate any other reactions or possibilities and lands as a one note throwaway.

[lambchop2]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 7:57pm

lite2shine said: "Does anyone remember the latter direction in the previous version of Miss Saigon?"

It seems to vary a lot. In the filmed Manila production, Ellen is shown crouched down talking to/comforting Tam with the Engineer and John standing by. When I saw the Toronto anniversary production a few years back, Kevin Gray's Engineer started to cry and was deliberately shielding Tam's eyes from seeing Kim on the ground and was comforting him. In the recent mini-tour with Manna Nichols and Orville Mendoza, Mendoza's Engineer was holding tight to Tam and appeared shocked, looking ahead like he wondered what would become of him now.

I prefer the directions that at least give us something with the Engineer, though I can appreciate what they're trying to do by ending it with Ellen and Tam

[Wildcard]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 9:10pm

The music to Please and the original Too Much For One Heart are the same. So they didn't just try to fit it in there. Too Much... came first. 

Also, the male leather dancer was in the original production. The Mormon is the new character. 

[ggersten]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 9:46pm

Mr. Nowack said: "Ellen doesn't seem like the type of person who would immediately think that

That's what makes it seem like an out of place song for me, it just doesn't strike me as a believable reaction to what's happening. Considering the possibility that maybe Chris always loved Kim and not her yes, but the song doesn't incorporate any other reactions or possibilities and lands as a one note throwaway."

My problem with Maybe is that I think the song does help to make you sympathetic to Ellen - but after she heartfeltedly sings about being willing to give up Chris if he wants Kim and contemplating whether Chris ever loved her - she very quickly turns into a not nice person who will not agree to have Kim in the USA anywhere near Chris - to the point where Chris would be without contact with his son.  So, when I saw it in London, I was actually more angry with Ellen - the opposite effect intended.  .  

 

[jsg03jd]

Posted: 9/25/16 at 11:37pm

Wildcard said: "The music to Please and the original Too Much For One Heart are the same. So they didn't just try to fit it in there. Too Much... came first. 

Also, the male leather dancer was in the original production. The Mormon is the new character. 

 

I know that but there was a sound reason TOO MUCH FOR ONE HEART was reconfigured from being a solo for Kim to PLEASE, which covers Kim's reunion with John.  The melody may be the same but the lyrics in place now are so godawful compared to PLEASE.  And I do not remember any male go go dancer at both Drury Lane and the Broadway Theatre.  That's why seeing one at the Prince Edward was jarring.  At least it was for me.

 

Updated On: 9/29/16 at 11:37 PM

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 9/29/16 at 11:35am

Rachelle Ann Go will be reprising Gigi on Broadway. Happy about this- I heard more raves for her than almost everyone else to be honest.