Russell Davies' Cucumber/Banana Premiers (Queer as Folk/Dr Who reboot creator)- Page 3

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 12:30pm

"
Okay. Wow. Who'd have thought it?! Obviously a minority interest. And you always seemed such a nice young man too. "

You tease. I think? :P

[haterobics]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 1:05pm

I'm curious why they don't use the porn star's last names in the tofu interviews. They are clearly Jake Bass and Max Ryder (I mean, I am guessing that is who they are?), but they put their first names only, like they are using their real as opposed to stage names... just for consistency, I guess? The people from Banana/Cucumber get their surnames used, though. Seems like they would want people to find their videos and promote their careers and such, no?

Updated On: 1/31/15 at 01:05 PM

[HorseTears]

Posted: 1/31/15 at 2:20pm

I just got the torrent link and I want to add that, Eric, you should be ashamed of yourself. I'm am sickened and appalled. I know some people have kinks, but this is just... wow.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 11:51am

"You tease. I think?"

I do, Eric.

Seriously now - on topic, I wasn't convinced by the writing and execution of all the "one more cock" stuff this week. I was, however, highly convinced by all the Freddie-control stuff.

Some of the plot's happenings are weakly contrived (unless we get a better explanation as the series progress); would the first thing a new widow does be to 'phone up her late husband's colleague about the possibility of plagiarism? Or make a racism-claim in such a calm and unemotive way within the next two days?

The strongest thing so far has been this week's Banana (which had nothing to do with its title). The pressures on Scotty of being, when barely an adult, a primary carer and bread-winner were well conveyed, even if some of the supporting roles were acted in a hasty manner. I think one of the interesting things to watch, as the series both progress, will be the portrayal of the pressures on young people and to see if they are different to those that Henry experienced when he was young.

Have watched the first Tofu and thought it was crap. It purports to be enlightened but actually perpetuates what it is criticising. Updated On: 2/1/15 at 11:51 AM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/6/15 at 4:04pm

Interesting reading the UK online paper reviews of the third episode, and the comments under them. I found it an uncomfortable but overall really fascinating episode--but lots of people seemed to think Davies was condoning "pedophiles" and that he was unaware of the murky layers between Henry filming his 15 year old nephew half-naked making out with other boys for the entertainment of online middle aged men and yet being horrified when he finds out Freddie was sleeping with his teacher when he was 15. I think that was exactly the question and point Davies wanted to raise.

What I find interesting about the comments under some of the reviews are how many (apparently gay,) people who dislike the show sound like the early critics of the original UK Queer as Folk--there are numerous posts complaining "Where are the shows with positive gay characters?!?!"

The Guardian had a piece saying the show was disappointing but that just proved that we need more gay dramas. I agree with the sentiment absolutely--and, just like with Looking or any series, obviously not everyone is gonna like it. But I don't really understand the sentiment of the piece which seems to be saying that gays should watch out of obligation anyway to encourage other gay shows. I don't think it works like that (the US remake of Queer as Folk was a massive hit for Showtime and led to no real copycats or other gay scripted shows. The UK QAF was a big hit as well and yet the only sorta wannabe show I can vaguely remember was something called Metrosexuality.) And even if it did, nobody should be forced to tune into a show they have no interest in.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 2/6/15 at 6:14pm

Even though I enjoy the fun and hyper-activity of his shows, I'm not by any means convinced that Davies makes his points well. It was only when I saw the schoolroom scene, where the teacher does nothing to stop the gay pupil from being bullied, in the US version of QaF that I understood its point.

Again I thought that Banana (still having nothing to do with its title) was the stronger of the two last night. Maybe they should have called it Melon?!

As for Cucumber, I was totally distracted by the thought of Henry wanking to a notorious, much derided and hugely popular 80s soap opera; Crossroads was many things but it was not the stuff of teenage masturbatory fantasies.



Updated On: 2/6/15 at 06:14 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/6/15 at 8:10pm

Ha, I know of Crossroads' reputation--and I think that was kinda meant to be the point (?) I mean it would make Henry less awkward if he was wanking to a commonly held hearthrob from the era.

I agree about Davies sometimes being too... ambiguous. Of course some of that is the direction--and the US QAF made every point as obvious as possible, but...

I enjoyed Banana too--it was charming although I think it benefits from its 22 minute length--the story couldn't have been stretched much further. This episode was written by Sue Perkins--she gave an interesting interview online showing how Davies and her would collaborate (him basically giving some premise and then later on re-structuring things.) I also liked the cameo from Francesco, the tweeker threesome guy from the first episode of Cucumber.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 3/1/15 at 1:25pm

Well, I certainly wasn't expecting that to happen, even after Denise Black had appeared, and I found the sequence very disturbing.





Updated On: 3/3/15 at 01:25 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/1/15 at 4:31pm

It was great to see Hazell again, but... yes. EVen with the death notification at the start, and having a good idea of who might cause that death I found the ending hard to watch.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/2/15 at 3:23am

Davies gave an interesting interview on it in Radio Times (obviously, spoilers through episode 6 of Cucumber.) He also mentions why there won't be a second season--which I expected (especially as he's already writing an 80s themed gay series for 4,) though I'm not sure I really understand his reasoning. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-02-26/russell-t-davies-id-long-wanted-to-write-a-death-that-feels-like-a-death

[Huss417]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 8:05am

I don't want to read the thread as afraid of spoilers. I just have a question. Should I watch them as individual shows or should I watch episode 1 each of cucumber and banana. I also have the smaller tofu episodes as well.

Thanks

[Roscoe]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 9:16am

I tried to watch it but Logo's pathetic low-def channel makes everything unbearable to look at.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:04pm

"Should I watch them as individual shows or should I watch episode 1 each of cucumber and banana."

I'd watch them episode 1 of each, episode 2 of each etc as they do dovetail to a small degree. For example Episode 6 of Banana informs on what happened after the end of episode 6 of Cucumber.

I haven't watched Tofu beyond episode 2, and may not bother doing so.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:58pm

Thanks for the link Eric - I'm rather annoyed that only one sentence from that interview has made it into my hardcopy of Radio Times.

Regarding his reasoning, Alison Graham is a regular TV critic in Radio Times who I personally don't rate but who obviously has a lot of influence, it being the oldest-established and classiest television (and there's a few pages still devoted to radio too) magazine here. I don't recall Ms Graham's demolition of Homeland series 2.

I find amusing the references in Cucumber to Canal Street "not being what it used to be" and "full of tourists". I've heard these comments regularly made in real life over the last ten years by people who then finish the sentence by saying that it's all a result of Queer as Folk.

When Russell talks about including a certain reference "cos that always chilled me as a kid" I can't help but wonder if his own experience informs a lot of his characterisation in gay drama. And if he's already writing an 80s themed gay series, then I guess we can expect more wanking to Crossroads.
The object of Henry's attention is Kevin (2:34 onwards) Updated On: 3/3/15 at 03:58 PM

[Huss417]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 3:59pm

Thanks Scripps2.

Another week of lousy weather so getting my shows in order. :)

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/3/15 at 4:53pm

Ha, yes, I looked up the character on Crossroads after the episode. I do think Davies' writing, at least of his gay dramas, does contain a lot of his own experiences (he has mentioned as much though often he's quick to deflect it as being based on various anecdotes friends have told him.)

Did you see the "webisode" that was released on channel4's site after episode 5 titled Screwdriver? It's worth watching although it's basically a 15 minute diatribe about why young people's access to any type of porn is such a danger (not something I disagree with, but Davies has talked about it in interviews too--and has been called a hypocrite for then having shows with sex in them which I think kinda misses the point.) It is done in character between Cleo and her son Adam in a pub and I guess is tied into the whole Adam "net kinda/porn" thing.

Huss--definitely watch them as Scripps said. Sometimes Banana will go directly from a brief scene in the previous Cucumber, or sometimes the reference is more indirect (like in the last episode.) Tofu isn't necessary at all, though I have liked the more recent episodes better and this last one was largely about Queer as Folk's impact and Canal Street which was slightly more interesting (Scripps--they actually acknowledge in it that any "commercialization" or whatever of Canal Street is partly QAF's fault, although really I hear that complaint about gay villages everywhere from Montreal on.)

Roscoe I know that Logo had a preview of the first episodes last night (they're starting officially next month.) As expected, they are edited. They also are hosting them on their website and I noticed that the first episode of Cucumber was a minute shorter--and scanning to one scene with full nudity, Logo has the offensive bits blurred out.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 3/5/15 at 4:41am

"Ha, yes, I looked up the character on Crossroads after the episode."

I took the opportunity to revisit Crossroads as well but I definitely didn't do what Henry did.

You're allowed to sn* at the fire,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDyhKQci7YY

shed a tear over its big queeny moment (which I think is reasonably well handled),

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjxQqJrZ6M4

and enjoy Julie Walters mercilessly taking the piss out of it all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkTPV39vqmo

but you're not allowed to wank over a man with an 80's perm.



Updated On: 3/5/15 at 04:41 AM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/6/15 at 1:19am

HAHA I have to say he doesn't have great taste. Then again neither did Vince on QAF (It's been a long time but wasn't he in love with some 80s British...race car driver? Similar plot element, anyway.)

What did you think of episode 7? I kept thinking the end was a dream--is the finale going to go in some bizarre section like the final minutes of QAF 2 (which I know so many fans hated but I thought was a decent way to end the series while still letting the characters go on...)

[Scripps2]

Posted: 3/7/15 at 5:55pm

I'm going to have to revisit QaF now, I don't remember the racing driver reference.

Just watched episode 7. I liked the way it portrayed the immature reactions of the youngsters at the start. I wonder if I was ever that crass? I don't think the end was a dream, just a creative way of getting Lance's sister out of the house and another sympton of his mid-life crisis. And the gay panic over a certain area of hair growth was funny.

I think my biggest problem with Cucumber is that I'm not convinced Henry is gay or in his mid-40s. I'm the same age as he is and from a similar social demographic so he should remind me of me. But he doesn't. He seems to be mid-50s rather than mid-40s. I don't believe all the series' pre-amble about how he's someone who "likes to start fires" - he doesn't, he starts them accidentally because he's a poor decision maker and that ages him as well. I don't think someone who doesn't know what he wants from life would end up in a senior management role in a commercial organisation, particularly if they were gay. And my peers are just that bit more at ease with themselves being gay. We notice the generation below us is even more at ease but Henry doesn't seem like he belongs to my own generation. Maybe, possibly the generation above but that isn't what the programme is supposed to be about.



Updated On: 3/7/15 at 05:55 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/7/15 at 6:56pm

Isn't he late 40s? Regardless, I agree that he reads as older. I thought the "likes to start fires" description was meant to turn out to be a bit of misdirection. We've seen over and over again now that Henry is anything but that kind of character.

I was slightly mixed on Banana, but was relived that it didn't have a happy ending. The "ugly" guy, to be honest, struck me as kinda annoying--I'm not sure how I'd react to a random threesome one night stand guy stalking me about town, anyway--and I wasn't sure if we were meant to side with him or not. However, by showing him being just as, for lack of a better word, "looksist" by the end I appreciated the episode more in hindsight.

From the trailer for next week, obviously you're right that the ending wasn't a dream. But it did play in that heightened RTD world he goes into sometimes (complete with what seemed like split second cameos from every single Banana character.) I guess in that sense it reminded me of the much hated QAF 2 ending (where they drive off to the US or whatever.)

Updated On: 3/7/15 at 06:56 PM

[Scripps2]

Posted: 3/8/15 at 9:09am

My guess for next week's ending is that it won't be surreal but that it will be like The Long Good Friday, whereby Henry thinks he's overcome his adverse circumstances and gets comfortable again, only to discover something much, much worse is happening.

I think the problem with the original QaF ending was that it entered new (surreal) territory for a straight (!) drama and whilst you can get away with that quite easily on stage it is more difficult for an unaccustomed TV-viewing audience to adapt to it. It was also the end to the second (mini) series of QaF, which had a different agenda to have the realistic intentions of the first series.

I think the only duff episode of Banana was the one where the guy goes back to his village in the countryside to stop his best friend's wedding. It left me with too many unanswered questions. I didn't enjoy this week's as much as some of the others but felt it was worthwhile. I really liked the way all the Banana characters were woven back into Cucumber, even the police officer, at the end.

I'm absolutely convinced that looks are only one part of what constitutes attraction. The unattractive thing about the "ugly" guy was his desperation and neediness, not his face. And I don't think RTD, or much of modern TV drama does sides - I think as viewers we're supposed to handle these characters objectively, assessing the is good and bad characteristics for ourselves. Hence debating them here!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/8/15 at 3:26pm

Absolutely. I pretty much agree with everything you said, so don't have much of a reply...

But, I did like the QAF ending for the reasons you say. I also sorta saw it as a FU to those who wanted a longer series, and I can get why that made a lot of people mad.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 3/10/15 at 1:27pm

The only political commentator I would go out of my way to hear speak on Cucumber.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/10/15 at 9:43pm

Thanks for the link. I've encountered Jones' writing before, but missed this. (As always, The Guardian's comment section scares me.)

[Scripps2]

Posted: 3/12/15 at 6:16pm

I'm glad those frames will still be in six years hence - I'm just about to order a pair.