Interview: 'I Hope it Gets People Talking': Actors Rachel John and Ashley Samuels on the Return of THE BIG LIFE at Stratford East

20 years after the original production, The Big Life: The Ska Musical has returned to Straford East. The show, an adaptation of Shakespeare’s Love’s Labour’s Lost, takes place in 1950s London and tells the story of the Windrush generation.

BroadwayWorld chatted with Rachel John and Ashley Samuels, who play Zulieka and Ferdy in The Big Life. We discussed the different paths they took to get into the theatre industry, the roles they play in the show and what it is like being a part of the revival twenty years on.

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How did you first get involved in the world of theatre?

Ashley: I literally did drama when I was in secondary school towards the end of sixth form, and then wanted to study something I was passionate about, so I ended up going to a drama school/university because I wanted to be “studenty” but ended up doing more hours than I should have done. I went to Guildford School of Acting, and from there, it's been a snowball effect! So it's been the generic third-year shows, got an agent, and then started on the way of going around the circuit doing different musicals and plays and concepts.

Rachel: Mine’s not as conventional! I did go to uni and did a degree in English and Drama and Theatre studies because I was on my way to doing a PGCE to go into teaching Drama and English - that was the plan. And then I had a year out to save up to do my PGCE and was tidying up my house and the Voice newspaper had an advert in the middle about open auditions for The Lion King. I just thought I'd just go and see what it's like! Went to the auditions, wasn't successful, got down to the final level and they were like, “No,” which was fine.

Then I started a few years of secretarial work. And then got a recall about a year and a half later, saying “Would you like to audition for us again?” I did, and then about two weeks later, ended up living in Paris and working for Disney for about a year and a half, and then auditioned for the West End and then got into The Lion King on the West End. And the rest, as they say, is history. That started in 2005, and here we are today, sitting here chatting with you! It's so incredible to hear your story because of the different paths to how people get here. 

What made you want to be a part of The Big Life?

Rachel: I'm young enough to say that I watched it 20 years ago! I was actually an audience member 20 years ago - I watched it twice! I watched it in Stratford, and then I watched it when it transferred to the West End. So I came in as a fan, and it's a show that never left my life, my heart or anything. The members of the original cast, I’ve had an opportunity to work with one of them, and it was just such an honour. It was a piece that looked like us, sounded like us . . . I just couldn't believe it existed. I was very sad when it closed. And so this just feels so divinely appointed that the auditions came back round, and here we are. It’s beautiful to start as a fan and then have the privilege and the honour to share this space with all these other wonderful actors and do this again. It just feels like a dream! We're pinching ourselves every day. So that's my story. That's why I wanted to do it, because it's incredible. 

Ashley: For me, I seem to just want to keep doing revivals of things!

[Laughs]

Ashley: I’ve done a Hairspray revival, an Oklahoma! revival . . . So this feels fitting. But I think what drew me to it is I'd heard about it, weirdly, because I live near Stratford. So I’d known about Stratford East a little bit. And I'd heard about this all-black cast, this all-black performance of this amazing musical about the Windrush journey, so it'd always been there. And then when the audition came, I was like, “Oh, I'm not sure if I could! The gravitas - it's like when you feel like the weight of something. Boom! There’s your audition packet. And I was like, “I think I'll just go and see what it's like, what the vibe is, and if it does go my way or doesn't go my way.

But then getting to meet Tinuke [Craig], the director, getting to feel what she wanted to tell with this revival, but also making it new and fresh. You get on that train where you're like “I want to keep going! I don’t want to get off the next stop, let me keep going to see where this journey goes to!” And then I got lucky enough to be able to play Ferdinand and do this. We all, as a cast, keep reminding ourselves, these are people's actual true life stories. And these people are telling stories who are still alive today, who remember the journey coming over, remember however long it took to get from the West Indies to Britain. So we feel like we've got a real gem and a real important story to bring to people that will see for first time, but also people who will remember the previous iteration. 

For those unfamiliar with The Big Life, can you tell us a bit about your roles and the role that your characters play in the show?

Ashley: There are four sets of men and four sets of women. In their own way, the men decide to swear off women for a period of three years to better themselves, because they feel women are the root of all their problems, and the women think that the men are the root of all of their problems as well! So it's mixed with Shakespeare's Love's Labour's Lost and it's about these comedies, a sort of farce, which they're on the journey coming over. That's where the Windrush element comes into it. And it's a comedy because each four men and each four respective women fall in love with each other, unbeknownst to their counterparts! And it's sprinkled with beautiful music as well, and beautiful choreography that we're doing.

So I play Ferdinand, who is, they say, the leader, but I think he's just more of the intellectual and is so buzzed about the Stoics and about virtues and ethics. So I think that's why people look to him like, “Oh, he's intelligent, so he must know what he's doing!” But he's just going along with the ride, being one of the boys. And then my love interest, Zulieka, is here . . . 

Rachel: Hello! [Laughs] For the women, for us, it's a really interesting journey. My character is Zulieka, who has already been in London, so she doesn't come over on the Windrush boat with everybody else - she's already been there for a while. And I own a B&B/boarding house. And for a lot of immigrants that were coming over, it was like, “Right, we're here. Where do we live?” You need comfort, you need support, all of those things. So her home is a haven for them. I mean, they're paying rent - and there are definitely rules!

This is our shared love interest of each other because it is a meeting of the minds. Both Zuleika and Ferdy want to move forward, establish rules, be structured, be disciplined. And so it's a really interesting love that grows between them because they're both very, very focused. And I think it can be like that! Love just hits you - you connect to someone and you're like, “Oh, gosh, here we are!” So for me, it's lovely for this piece to have couples in this way where we can fall in love and get it wrong and get it right. The harshness of the world outside . . . What this British society was giving to these people wasn't always very pleasant. And so to juxtapose that, we have fun. And the people you love the most are the people you fight with the most. So I think people really connect with the human stories. It is a family and it is a group of mates, so sometimes it can go terribly well and it can go terribly wrong.

So that's our characters, on what we represent. And obviously, we are only upheld by the other amazing actors that we get the opportunity to play with and watch their relationships as well, because we're steady, and they’re all over the place! Just saying, we’re the best! [Laughs]

What has it been like being a part of this revival twenty years after the original?

Ashley: It's a joy! It's great to tell stories, that matter and are impactful, but for us, it's a story which doesn't really have any trauma in it. Quite a while, with stories which come from a world of truth, for black stories, it's usually where you've got a gut-wrenching, “These are struggles! These are what we had to go through.” This has that, because there are elements within every life that there was some trauma that children experienced, but it's really not. It's about the joy of about really discovering new places like when they get to London, how they navigate, also how much we assimilated with British culture!

That is the point of ska music because it is a mix of two different cultures coming together and working together and making the best of what they had. When we were discussing the piece and looking at the script, we’re taken aback by how traumatic it was for people to be leaving their homeland and going, “We may not come back, we don't know how long we've got to go, but we've got to go. We've got to go and make this life better and see what's out there,” with the invitation to come over and help Britain rebuild after the war. It's meant that I've had conversations with generations before like, “How was it for you? What was your experience?” And that's what's great about storytelling - it opens conversations that you wouldn't normally necessarily have. For me, I feel educated, and maybe a better actor as well, because I now listen more! [Laughs]

Rachel: Absolutely what Ashley’s saying! Doing a revival like this, it does bring out more conversations. We've had so many conversations in rehearsals - not just in the room, but outside. And for everyone to feel like we're uplifting the stories and honouring these stories of our parents and our parent’s parents. I think doing this is going to be really special. I wish I was in the bar at the end of all - I love hearing people talking!

I remember the first time I watched it, it was just such an atmosphere of talking and people going, “Yes, that was it!” And “That's how it felt!” So I feel like Stratford holds this show in a very special place in their heart because the audience is the next actor we're waiting for to come in and include themselves in the piece. I think, at this moment, especially where we're celebrating 75 years of the Windrush, Stratford is going to really receive this so well. And it's very dear to them, so we're going to do them all proud. So it's an exciting revival for us and that's what we're here to do to - honour and justice and say thank you to those original cast and creatives as well because, without them, we wouldn't be here.

What do you hope audiences take away from The Big Life?

Rachel: I want them to take away stories that give them an insight into the immigrant story and also the story of empire. Sometimes we talk about Britain as this thing where, in a way, certain bits of history are not highlighted enough. So I hope it gets people talking and also, hopefully, gets people bopping! Also, I’d like an audience that talk back to us.

Ashley: Yes!

Rachel: We have got no problem with that. We would like them to tell us! That immersive, responsive audience experience, for us. . . I would love to feel the buzz of this audience going home and saying “Yeah, you know what? They told our stories well, we bopped to the tunes, we sang along,” and that's what I'd love them to take take away from it. We need a little bit of reflection and a bit of joy, so that's what I hope they take away!

Ashley: I just want them to have two and a half hours where they don't look at their watches, don't look at their phones, just forget about the outside world - there is enough out there! [Laughs] We've been through so much these past few years. Just for people to bop along and to be leaving the theatre singing along and having a good time and and enjoying the fact that storytelling will take them somewhere else, because that's what we need - it’s what we use stories for, to encourage and help us through dark times.

Rachel: That's what we want the story to do. We want it to really resonate with them. I'd love to know if there's people who saw it like myself, 20 years ago, that have come back. That's what I'd love to see as well! I'd love to see what people think. Do they remember the songs? Because I do!

And finally, how would you describe The Big Life in one word? 

Rachel: Endurance. 

Ashley: Exhilarating. It's gonna get people going!

Rachel: Yes!

Ashley: We've got comedy and we've got gasping moments where you're gonna be like, “Oh!” yeah,

Rachel: I think “endurance” because of who's in it and what our stories are and how we get to the end. But honestly, I think the show’s about love. It’s a need for and the action of.

Ashley: That’s good!

The Big Life runs from until 30 March 2024 at Stratford East. Read our review here.

Production photo credits: Mark Senior

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