Lia Thomas

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:51am

 I believe that Lea Thomas competing against non trans women is absurd.

Utterly and completely. The young women on the team all stated as much. I completely agree with the decision of FINA as do 99% of human beings. Anyone who thinks differently is choosing to be deliberately obtuse.

"Yet Thomas’ success has vexed even those who say they support her transition, including some of her fellow swimmers. An anonymous letter purportedly written on behalf of 16 of her 40 Penn teammates earlier this month criticized what they saw as her “unfair advantage,” saying they supported her gender transition out of the pool but not necessarily in it."

Great article about their decision to not allow her to compete. You don't get to suck in male swimming and then decide to join the women's swimming team with a fully developed, post pubescent male body. I wish Lea the best in her life, truly, but this was the right call. 

Washington Times

 

Updated On: 3/28/23 at 11:51 AM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 2:28pm

See below. It is totally unfair to women to have to complete against Lea Thomas and others.

"This study concluded that transgender athletes born male have an “intolerable,” or overwhelming, advantage over biological women in athletic competition. The paper stated healthy male test subjects “did not lose significant muscle mass (or power)” when their testosterone levels were suppressed below the International Olympic Committee guidelines for transgender athletes of 10nmol/L.

Further, it found these biological males could retain their muscle mass through training and that because of muscle memory, their mass and strength could be “rebuilt” through training. It also found that giving opposite-sex hormones to transgender people post-puberty did not alter the athletic-enhancing effects of testosterone on the male body.

Essentially, this study concludes that men who “transition” by taking testosterone suppressants can rejuvenate whatever muscle mass, strength, and power they may lose initially through proper training. This would render transgender hormones useless in regard to “leveling the playing field” in athletics between biological males and females. Thus, forcing biological women to compete against transgender men gives the men an unjust competitive advantage."

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 2:58pm

Exactly. Thanks for the study info, Zeppie.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 3:02pm

"Cis"

Is that a word you refuse to use? These debates about "sport" are just a screen to spout transphobic talking points. Trans women are women. Cis women are women. Trans men are men. Cis men are men.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 9:47am

"These debates about "sport" are just a screen to spout transphobic talking points. "

Absolutely wrong. This is about unfair athletic competition and young women getting screwed out of athletic scholarships and awards they deserve. Ever notice a woman who transitions to become a man never enters men's sporting contests. Gee I wonder why? Maybe if you had a daughter who played sports in HS or college and was affected by this you may think differently.

 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 10:38am

It's a problem that doesn't exist. Trans people make up about 5% of the population. How many of them are looking to compete in high level sports? Most of them are just fighting to live their life. 

The fixation with this also leads to the assumption there are people out there transitioning just to get an advantage in sports. Like the notion that men just want to use the womens bathroom to peek over at the woman in the next stall. That's both ludicrous and transphobic.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 11:44am

ErikJ972 said: "It's a problem that doesn't exist."

While I acknowledge the problem exists and is important to those who are directly affected, the sports issue is in a different universe from the life-or-death problems faced by transgender people just living their lives every day. 

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 12:52pm

"While I acknowledge the problem exists and is important to those who are directly affected, the sports issue is in a different universe from the life-or-death problems faced by transgender people just living their lives every day."

I agree 100%.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 2:24pm

I should rephrase that. Compared to what the trans community faces on a daily basis this is an insignificant problem. Clickbait for pearl clutchers. 

Also, her name is Lia Thomas.

 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 2:51pm

Whipping up hysteria about this "problem" only creates a much bigger problem, which will result in more harm than the one you might be trying to solve. Transphobic scaremongers will result in higher suicide rates, hate crimes etc. ... lifelong mental health issues that run much further than the length of a sports career. Humans are more important than Olympic medals.

Even in making your arguments, it doesn't hurt anyone to use the right lanuage. Trans women are women. Calling trans athletes "former men" doesn't help anybody.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 2:57pm

"It's a problem that doesn't exist."

Weird because it was an international news story. Being deliberately obtuse serves no one. And equating bathroom bills to the swimming issue is ridiculous, as those bills are completely transphobic. The swimming decision was based on biology, not hatred and ignorance.

Big difference. Updated On: 2/24/23 at 02:57 PM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 9:33am

"And equating bathroom bills to the swimming issue is ridiculous, as those bills are completely transphobic. The swimming decision was based on biology, not hatred and ignorance.

Big difference."

Exactly. This issue is about fair competition and nothing else. 

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 10:01am

"Whipping up hysteria about this "problem" only creates a much bigger problem, which will result in more harm than the one you might be trying to solve. Transphobic scaremongers will result in higher suicide rates, hate crimes etc. ... lifelong mental health issues that run much further than the length of a sports career. Humans are more important than Olympic medals."

This "problem" is basically cheating, guess you are ok with that and the effects it has on young women competing in sports. Are you worried about the mental state of young women training hard for years to be their best and have it taken away due to unfair advantage of Lia Thomas and a few others? Pointing out this problem is not "whipping up hysteria", it is addressing an issue about competition rules in sports. 

In the end, I hope this issue can be resolved. Sports is supposed to be a meritocracy and this issue has distorted that in my opinion.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 2/26/23 at 10:22am

"Young women"

Please remember that these trans athletes are also young women. This argument is always painted as innocent little girls battling big brutish men. That's not how it is. Yes, I'm afraid your cause is indeed being used to whip up transphobic hysteria. Dangerous obssessive hate groups have been using it as a fear tactic.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 2/26/23 at 12:24pm

I just need to ask, do you believe Lia Thomas and other trans athletes who transition do so to gain the system and get a leg up in competition? If so, how heartbreaking you think that. If you don’t, then I’m confused what the problem is. Lia Thomas is a woman. She deserves to compete with other women. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/26/23 at 1:18pm

do you believe Lia Thomas and other trans athletes who transition do so to gain the system and get a leg up in competition?

You aren't actually asking a question so people can answer honestly, you are asking so you can attack and judge. I keep mentioning being intentionally obtuse and you (and others) keep proving to be that way again and again. The swimming issue is more complicated, but you don't seem to grasp it. A biological male competing in women's sport where strength and size matter? Very simple why they decided to not let her compete. This is not hard to understand.

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 2/26/23 at 1:48pm

My husband and I will participate in the 2026 Gay Games in Valencia, Spain, in either the full or half marathon.  There is only one requirement for entry into these games:  you must be at least 18 years of age.  I am grateful to the Federation of Gay Games for their reaffirmation of the rights of trans persons to join other athletes in the Gay Games.  I hope to see Lia Thomas in Valencia,

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1124913/fgg-criticises-fina-transgender-policy  

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 2/26/23 at 2:29pm

Swimming is where the argument makes the least sense to me. It's not a contact sport, there is no physical danger being posed. Size and strength matter, of course they do. All champions win because they have been lucky with their biological features.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 3/19/23 at 8:22pm

"Swimming is where the argument makes the least sense to me. It's not a contact sport, there is no physical danger being posed. Size and strength matter, of course they do. All champions win because they have been lucky with their biological features."

Strength

"Male athletes have a higher ratio of muscle mass to body weight, which allows for greater speed and acceleration. This explains why female speed records in running and swimming are consistently 10 percent slower than men's, and why, on average, they have two thirds of the strength of men."

"As the controversy over transgender participation in women’s sports continues, including through newspaper discussion and television debate, here is a look at how Lia Thomas fared against biological women during her recent season at the University of Pennsylvania. "

"Just how much of an advantage did Lia Thomas possesses over biological females? The numbers paint a clear picture. The fact that the University of Pennsylvania swimmer soared from a mid-500s ranking (554th in the 200 freestyle; all divisions) in men’s competition to one of the top-ranked swimmers in women’s competition tells the story of the unfairness which unfolded at the NCAA level."

Mic Drop

 

Updated On: 3/20/23 at 08:22 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 3/27/23 at 10:55pm

Literally every single professional athlete has biological and genetic advantages. That's the name of the game. It's why all those high school jocks become so sad when their career ends at high school where they peaked. Unless you want to get into the ethics of Michael Phelps competing against other cismen with his overwhelming biological advantages then please save me your concern about Lia and other Trans athletes who wish to compete in women's sport. You know why there's so much discussion about Lia? Because she's an outlier. She's a Transwoman who excelled in her sport and thus should be punished for it. There are other Transwomen who compete in Swim, Track, etc. Who don't as well as her. Who are beaten by their cis competitors. So please save me the faux concern about the "trans advantage" being the only advantage that is worth interrogating. It's disgusting and dehumanizing. So you can what? Push the small handful of Trans athletes out of the sport they've had to climb back up the ladder of post-transition because some of them some of the time best their cis competitors? Grow up.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 3/28/23 at 12:42am

"Literally every single professional athlete has biological and genetic advantages. That's the name of the game. It's why all those high school jocks become so sad when their career ends at high school where they peaked. Unless you want to get into the ethics of Michael Phelps competing against other cismen with his overwhelming biological advantages then please save me your concern about Lia and other Trans athletes who wish to compete in women's sport. You know why there's so much discussion about Lia? Because she's an outlier. She's a Transwoman who excelled in her sport and thus should be punished for it. There are other Transwomen who compete in Swim, Track, etc. Who don't as well as her. Who are beaten by their cis competitors. So please save me the faux concern about the "trans advantage" being the only advantage that is worth interrogating. It's disgusting and dehumanizing. So you can what? Push the small handful of Trans athletes out of the sport they've had to climb back up the ladder of post-transition because some of them some of the time best their cis competitors? Grow up."

Few questions for you. If Lia Thomas is such a great swimmer how come she was ranked 500th in men's competition? Funny how Lia Thomas is so much better competing against women. I can't wait for you to tell me the reason why Lia Thomas could not excel in men's swimming competition. Every heard of Caitlyn Jenner? She has spoken out and said biological boys should not be playing in women's sports. As Bruce Jenner, she won Olympic gold medal in the Decathalon. My gut feeling is she is more of an expert on this issue than you. Another question for you is how come you never see a biological girl/woman transition and play in men's sport competition. The answer is quite simple, they would get crushed in any sport they attempted. Ever think part of the reason Michael Phelps was so great was because he trained hard for many years and had excellent coaching. Your knowledge of sports is underwhelming, you do not peak athletically in your teens even if you do not play sports professionally later in life.  BTW - I played basketball in HS and college and will tell you I was a better player at 25-30 than I was in HS/college.

Just curious, what advantages do you want to interrogate?  Michael Phelps is taller than the average swimmer, how do you plan to investigate why? - lmao. He also has longer wingspan than the average male swimmer, get somebody investigating his parents and find out the reason that happened. - OMG. 

If you seriously don't think Lia Thomas has unfair advantage over other women competing in sports, I give up. I don't need to grow up, anybody with a brain knows I am correct and people who actually know sports would back me up.

Let me add a couple of things. I don't think Lia Thomas transitioned just to win some sports competitions. There should be a place in sports for Lia Thomas but she should compete against other biological males who transition.

 

Updated On: 3/28/23 at 12:42 AM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 3/28/23 at 8:57am

See below from all-time great tennis player.

"Martina Navratilova expressed support for World Athletics as the international governing body for track and field events prohibited transgender women from competing against biological females.

Navratilova, who won 18 Grand Slam tournaments including nine Wimbledon championships, wrote an op-ed in The Times of UK on Sunday calling World Athletics’ decision a "step in the right direction."

She called for a separate category for transgender athletes.

In the wake of World Athletics’ announcement, I think the best idea would be to have ‘biological female’ and ‘biological girls’ categories and then an ‘open’ category," she wrote. "It would be a category for all-comers: men who identify as men; women who identify as women; women who identify as men; men who identify as women; non-binary — it would be a catch-all. This is already being explored in athletics and swimming in Britain.

"Biological females are most likely to compete in the biological female category, as that’s their best shot at winning and it maintains the principle of fairness. With an ‘open’ category there are no question marks, no provisos, no asterisks, no doubts. It’s a simple solution.

"Once somebody has gone through male puberty, there is no way to erase that physical advantage. You cannot simply turn back the clock, for instance by trying to lower testosterone levels."

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 4/6/23 at 9:24am

Kansas GOP Bill Authorizes Genital Exams of Schoolchildren, Critics Say

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/5/23 at 11:30am

I've done some growing up on this issue and I don't agree with what I wrote before. Transwomen are women and transmen are men - full stop, for all purposes, with no exceptions.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 7/5/23 at 4:33pm

That's nice to hear, kdogg. It's a relief to know that people capable of learning is still a thing.