Could ATG acquire more theatres?

[BroadMagTech]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 10:40am

in this article from Nov of 2016, it says that the Ambassador theatre group has "made no secret secret of its desire to acquire more in New York and elsewhere in North America." Which Broadway theatres could ATG possibly acquire? I wish the Mark Hellinger was on the table.

Updated On: 1/10/17 at 10:40 AM

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 10:55am

Maybe another one of the "dead mall" theatres that isn't doing anything right now, since the Hudson was their first successful flip after picking up that albatross the Lyric?

Maybe they could get the Edison Theatre back (another hotel space a la the Hudson), or the Times Square Theatre (as of March 2015, it looked, at least according to Riedel's column, like this was already in their sights). Or maybe they do a deal like the Marquis has with the Marriott and take over the auditorium at the Liberty Theatre, now that Famous Dave's has moved out and there's a split between the Liberty Diner and the auditorium space which is rented out for events.

I mean, New Victory is now Off-Broadway, and Mark Hellinger is off the table, so that's pretty much the options they have, unless they take shares of other venues off the major landlords' hands (good luck with that), or they have enough money to build a new venue in the Big Apple. (And if so, I'd love to know where the hell they think they can put it.)

Updated On: 1/10/17 at 10:55 AM

[MarkBearSF]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 11:32am

Re the Times Square Theatre. I recall reading that the fatal flaw in that property right now is that there is that the only access for load-in/out is 42nd St after their 43rd access was stymied in some remodel years ago.

ATG has announced plans to extensively remodel (shrink) the Lyric and move the main entrance to 43rd St. I don't know the specifics of each property's footprints, but I wonder if the Lyric work could also provide access relief to the Times Square Theatre?

Updated On: 1/10/17 at 11:32 AM

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 12:00pm

That it might. But in plain terms, unless there is somehow new space in the Broadway district, the Times Square Church folds, or the New Victory decides to go back to being Broadway territory, what I laid out is pretty much where they can go.

(Which, not for nothing, isn't bad at all. Sink money into renovating the Lyric to be a house of realistic size, that opens the Times Square for them to swoop in, I'm sure the Edison is already taking a wait-and-see approach re: the Hudson, and in the case of the Liberty, it would be steady bookings that their event space would have trouble finding otherwise. If they pick up three other theaters, however minor by comparison to the Shuberts and Nederlanders ATG may be in NY, it still makes them a decent sized player.) 

Updated On: 1/10/17 at 12:00 PM

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 12:29pm

I wonder what the status is of the Liberty Theatre. From pictures of the space when it was a BBQ restaurant and a diner, it looks like the theatrical infrastructure was left remarkably in tact. And I know I've passed a loading dock for the theatre on 41st Street. Has anybody been inside? I wonder if it could be used for theatre again.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 12:33pm

I saw a "follies" show there at the Liberty. The actual theater is quite gorgeous and intact. The mezz/balcony is TINY. And where there was a large platform built on top of the kitchen that they built a bar on, etc. Not sure if there is an actual backstage space. But I suppose there must be somewhere? 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 12:34pm

I really wish someone would take Stage 42 and use it. It's such a great space. Nice lobby, huge stage area, etc. But it never gets used. It's not even in a bad location. Add a few more chairs, make it a legit Broadway house. 

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 12:38pm

Well apparently they moved the back walls for the Mezz and Balcony inwards when they did the renovation at the Liberty to make it an event space. I think perhaps those kinds of changes could be made again in a theatrical renovation.  Looks like it could be a nice venue for a straight play.

Updated On: 1/10/17 at 12:38 PM

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 12:48pm

The Times Square Theater will likely not become a traditional theatre. The above poster is correct: they are landlocked on 42nd Street so large load ins/outs are not feasible. (The current Lyric is actually two old theaters combined into one giant one. When they did that remodel, it cut off 43rd St access for the Times Square Theater). The Broadway 4D project was supposed to go in there before all those lawsuits against its producers scuttled it. In years prior Best Buy, Barnes and Nobles, and other retail stores looked at the space (back when those companies had the money to buy such a thing), but they eventually passed it over. So the New 42nd st is ultimately looking for another Broadway 4D type attraction to put inside it. 

As for the New Victory: that isn't going ANYWHERE. It is the crown jewel of the The New 42nd Street, most of the organization works directly towards its operations. Why on earth would they give up that theater? (its also been classified as off-broadway ever since its restoration and opening 20 years ago)

I dont know the landlord's business plans for the Liberty Theatre, but it would be difficult to transform it into a Broadway sized space. 

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 3:57pm

RippedMan said: "I really wish someone would take Stage 42 and use it. It's such a great space. Nice lobby, huge stage area, etc. But it never gets used. It's not even in a bad location. Add a few more chairs, make it a legit Broadway house."

On the one hand, all they need to add is one seat -- literally one -- to hit the minimum required for a Tony-eligible Broadway house. On the other hand, going to 500 seats would probably require negotiating new contracts with the unions, raising costs further.

MayAudraBlessYou2 said: "The Times Square Theater will likely not become a traditional theatre. The above poster is correct: they are landlocked on 42nd Street so large load ins/outs are not feasible. (The current Lyric is actually two old theaters combined into one giant one. When they did that remodel, it cut off 43rd St access for the Times Square Theater). The Broadway 4D project was supposed to go in there before all those lawsuits against its producers scuttled it. In years prior Best Buy, Barnes and Nobles, and other retail stores looked at the space (back when those companies had the money to buy such a thing), but they eventually passed it over. So the New 42nd st is ultimately looking for another Broadway 4D type attraction to put inside it."

Didn't someone announce recently though that the Lyric was getting renovated (read: made smaller), with the main entrance being moved to 43rd St.? Won't that do something to allow access for the Times Square?

"As for the New Victory: that isn't going ANYWHERE. It is the crown jewel of the The New 42nd Street, most of the organization works directly towards its operations. Why on earth would they give up that theater? (its also been classified as off-broadway ever since its restoration and opening 20 years ago)"

Which is why I said it was unlikely.

"I dont know the landlord's business plans for the Liberty Theatre, but it would be difficult to transform it into a Broadway sized space."

How so? Move the back walls for the mezz and balcony outwards again, for starters, and you gain audience space.

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:08pm

They are moving the box office for the Lyric to 43rd Street (it actually was there for RAGTIME when the theatre first re-opened) but the stage door isn't changing. So that wouldn't help the issue with the Times Square loading dock.

The Liberty Theatre actually housed plays and full on musicals back in the day.  There are tons of pics online and it doesn't look like the stage area has been reduced at all.  To me it looks potentially viable to at least become a 501 seat playhouse again, especially since it has housed large scale events in recent times. But there could be some other issue we don't know about.

Updated On: 1/10/17 at 04:08 PM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:17pm

I don't see why Stage 42 just goes wasted most of the time. I wish a non-profit could get it or something. 

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:28pm

Stage 42 is a mystery. The Shuberts must be using it as a tax write off.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:34pm

we still have freedom of contract in this country so ATG can acquire anything they want if they pay for it. But before we go buying new venues for them, let's see if they can make a go of one that that already have. 

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:35pm

I wonder if the Ed Sullivan Theater could ever be returned to its former glory?

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:43pm

I'm sure the Ed Sullivan could be a legit theatre again, but it seems pretty viable as a television venue and I doubt CBS would easily sell - especially since they bought it for only 4.5 million dollars in 1993.

I wonder if the Times Square or the Liberty could actually be used for television broadcasts if the issue is continual usage of their loading zones.

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:48pm

I'm really glad they were able to get the Colonial Theatre in Boston before Emerson College turned it into a cafeteria of sorts...

[Kinky Boy]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:50pm

u mean the times square church?

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 4:58pm

I mean the Times Square Theatre on 42nd Street. It seems like a viable location for a television network to broadcast from and wouldn't require use of a stage door for regular load ins.

As has been discussed The Times Square Church (formally the Mark Hellinger) isn't for sale.  The owners have been approached many times by Theatre Producers wishing to buy and all offers have been flatly refused. 

Updated On: 1/10/17 at 04:58 PM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 5:00pm

Would be kind of cool if they moved Colbert to Times Sq but that doesn't seem realistic. 

[OrchardAndRivington]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 5:00pm

If ATG were really committed to acquiring new venues they would absolutely figure out a way to access the backstage of the Times Square Theatre via the renovations at the Lyric. 

Just because the stage door location isn't changing, doesn't mean they are not building some kind of multi-use load in dock/access to the Times Square further west on the block, closer to the Loading doors/backstage. It may mean that whatever show is playing the Lyric will see a reduced stage depth to build an alley/tunnel from 43rd Street, through the Lyric, to a large dock door, built into the back interior wall of the Times Square.

National Tours of Broadway shows load into challenging venues without loading docks all the time, and the size of shows that would be playing at the Times Square (small musicals or plays) wouldn't be too difficult to load in as smaller pieces and assemble onstage. There is ALWAYS a way, if the innovation and $$ are there.

I would love to see all 3 of the venues discussed find a new life as legit Broadway Houses. The infrastructure is there, ATG is eager to grow, I hope they can find a way to make it work!

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 5:11pm

I think the issue with the Times Square Theatre loading dock and the Lyric are pretty insurmountable.  When it was renovated, the Lyric combined two buildings and that new infrastructure completely land locks The Times Square Theatre by entire buildings on 3 sides. There is no way that any renovation could be made to make the Times Square Theatre accessible on 43rd Street unless they blew out the walls separating the back of the Times Square Theatre and the side wall of the stage of the Lyric. Thus right now, the only way "in" is through the front entrance on 42nd Street.  That seems to be the big issue for zoning reasons. 

The upcoming renovations at the Lyric are essentially cosmetic. They are moving non structural walls (the back of the Mezz and Balcony) inwards to make the space more intimate and they are moving the box office to 43rd Street (where there is already a second box office that just isn't being used at the moment). They aren't doing anything (that I'm aware of) that would change the structure of the building to allow any kind of tunnel.

Updated On: 1/10/17 at 05:11 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 5:40pm

this thread had veered dangerously into fantasy land.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 6:01pm

QueenAlice said: "I think the issue with the Times Square Theatre loading dock and the Lyric are pretty insurmountable.  When it was renovated, the Lyric combined two buildings and that new infrastructure completely land locks The Times Square Theatre by entire buildings on 3 sides. There is no way that any renovation could be made to make the Times Square Theatre accessible on 43rd Street unless they blew out the walls separating the back of the Times Square Theatre and the side wall of the stage of the Lyric. Thus right now, the only way "in" is through the front entrance on 42nd Street.  That seems to be the big issue for zoning reasons. 

The upcoming renovations at the Lyric are essentially cosmetic. They are moving non structural walls (the back of the Mezz and Balcony) inwards to make the space more intimate and they are moving the box office to 43rd Street (where there is already a second box office that just isn't being used at the moment). They aren't doing anything (that I'm aware of) that would change the structure of the building to allow any kind of tunnel."

 

I would also add that those changes to the Lyric are being done for Cursed Child and it is yet to be seen whether they will remain permanently in place once that show closes in the (most likely distant) future.

[OrchardAndRivington]

Posted: 1/10/17 at 9:23pm

I would also add that those changes to the Lyric are being done for Cursed Child and it is yet to be seen whether they will remain permanently in place once that show closes in the (most likely distant) future.

 

Exactly. I would think the plan is to run Harry Potter for a decade or so, so if they were able to add a loading dock door to the stage right wall of the stage house in the Lyric, and crate a loading door on the back wall of the Times Square in a way that would allow for load in/load out possible for the Times Square during the long run of Harry Potter, without closing down HP or risking damage to their production, it could be a smart move for ATG and the architects planning the renovations to the Lyric to look at. 

 

The Lyric renovation doesn't seem to be similar to the ones we have seen at the Schoenfeld and Longacre. This seems more like a Henry Miller/Sondheim scale transformation, giving the parties involved the unique and one time opportunity to make the relighting of the Times Square Theatre happen. 

A pipe dream? Fantasyland? Maybe. Probably.

But given the extent of the planned Lyric renovation, the prime 42nd Street location the Times Square provides for a small musical/play house and the access they could create by building an all-in-one Flagship Broadway theatre complex that straddles 42nd and 43rd Streets, this could be exactly the type of statement ATG wants to make to be competitive with Shubert/Nederlander/Jujamcyn. 

Either way, I hope the Times Square Theatre finds a workable tenant soon. I try to avoid 42nd Street unless I need to go there for a specific reason, but whenever I see the sad facade of the Times Square Theatre, I can't help but lament  on the possibilities..