Evita vs Hamilton
Evita vs Hamilton
#1Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:06pm
Evita or Hamilton. Two biographical, sung through musicals. You decide
Based on ORIGINAL 1979 production of Evita, which is better? (Of course if you did not see original production of Evita, you can't really judge - especially if your opinion of Evita is based on the inferior revival a couple of years back.)
On to business:
Score? Hands down Sir ALW wins. No comparison. Probably his last great score before he became gooey.
Book? Close, but give it to Evita. Hamilton can be muddled at times and Lafayette is impossible to understand, so information is lost for the sake of rapping at breakneck speed. Meh. Also, Rice rhymes most of the time. Miranda goes in for assonance a lot of the time, which is not rhyme, but so "now."
Direction and choreography? Evita. Prince created visually stunning pictures that I still can see. Red banners unfurling at end of act one with the giant bed at center stage; the striking choreography for the soldiers in Dangerous Jade; the brilliant staging of Art of the Possible, the iconic balcony scene (anyone doing Evita pays homage to that moment); the floating money in The Money Keeps Rolling In; the final funeral procession, the revolving door of lovers. All ingrained in my memory since 1979.
I saw Hamilton seven months ago and cannot recall a single visual scene of interest. Other than several times having the chorus rush upstage, turn , and then rush downstage, I can remember nothing about the staging.
Performances? Title character performers. Again, give it to Evita. LuPone was mesmerizing; Miranda is adequate. He won't be missed; she was.
In Evita white people played Hispanics. In Hamilton, Hispanics and blacks play white people. Lots of points scored there for Hamilton these days, but really, it's a wash.
So why is Hamilton the greatest musical since the dawn of time... well, it's not. It's just that if you have only been seeing musicals for twenty five years, you are judging Hamilton against piles and piles of dumbed down, campy tripe. Hamilton is good, yes, but it looks a lot better than it actually is.
I liked Hamilton just fine, but Evita was better, and I don't remember anyone calling to canonize Tim Rice and ALW
#4Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:12pm
I agree but I fail to see the point in comparing the two. If we are going to compare, honestly, I fee like Hamilton is most like Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson in concept and I think Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson did it better but I still enjoy Hamilton.
#5Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:18pm
I love Evita (specifically the original production) a lot, but I also love Hamilton. I happen to think that Evita will be around a lot longer than Hamilton. Hamilton is deeply rooted in modern culture while Evita is a bit more timeless. I understand that there are similarities between the two shows, but I don't see why you have to choose to love one more than the other.
BroadwayConcierge
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/24/15
#6Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:18pm
JayG 2 said: "Score? Hands down Sir ALW wins. No comparison."
...and ya lost me.
Yes, Evita is one of ALW's best scores, but to say it prevails over Hamilton? Are you kidding?
#8Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:23pm
Why do people insist on phrasing their opinions as if they were facts? As a user of an internet message board, I suppose I should really get used it, but it's still such a pet-peeve...
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#9Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:24pm
Unless I misunderstand what you meant, your arguments about the book don't even make sense. You talk about performances and rhyme scheme.
My problem with your post is that one has to be superior to the other: why can't they both just be appreciated for what they are?
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#10Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:25pm
Why pose it as if you're starting a discussion as to which is better if you're just voicing your opinion that one is leagues better than the other...
EVITA is just as flawed as HAMILTON as far as writing is concerned. I would argue HAMILTON is a little less sensationalist than EVITA. I'd also say there are just as many songs in each score that I don't care for, but that is my personal opinion.
I'll still always prefer JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR and IN THE HEIGHTS over both of them.
Keeping BroadwayWorld Illustrated
BroadwayConcierge
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/24/15
#11Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:27pm
dramamama611 said: "My problem with your post is that one has to be superior to the other: why can't they both just be appreciated for what they are?"
This. This, this, this.
#12Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 2:46pm
"Yes, Evita is one of ALW's best scores, but to say it prevails over Hamilton? Are you kidding?"
Uh, no.
#13Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 3:46pm
I prefer "Evita", to answer the question.
They/them.
"Get up the nerve to be all you deserve to be."
zjb8
Chorus Member Joined: 6/23/15
#14Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 5:29pm
I enjoy Evita more than Hamilton, but I find it strange you picked those two musicals to compare. I think on a performance level it will be very difficult to find someone who tops Patti LuPone's performance in Evita; she was incredible.
ebontoyan
Broadway Star Joined: 9/22/14
#15Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 6:14pm
Hamilton all the way! But really no need to bash one show to lift up the other. They are both great in their own way
#16Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 6:14pm
JayG 2 said: In Evita white people played Hispanics.
Those aren't mutually exclusive. The Perons were white Hispanics.
Other than that, I'm mostly in agreement. Evita has one of the most beautiful scores ever written, but the book is flawed. I don't feel like it ever really comes together or makes any cogent point. But neither does Hamilton. They both suffer from encyclopeditis.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#17Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 6:48pm
This just seems like the OP was trying to find a way to insult Hamilton. Clearly Hamilton is superior, and I am someone who absoutley LOVES Evita and Patti LuPone. It is ALW's best score by a long shot, but it doesn't beat Hamilton. Perhaps performance wise Evita wins, but not content wise.
#18Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 6:49pm
I don't really see the need to compare both shows. I mean, they're both historical in content, and both have an outside narrator character, though arguably Che is much more a narrator than Burr, but they're different musicals in terms of tone and style. Obviously the style of the music is different, of course, but Hamilton is much more earnest in its storytelling, whereas Evita has a much more cynical bent to it.
That said, while I didn't see the original production of Evita since it was before my time, I disagree that Hamilton's staging is not memorable. In particular, the rewind section of Satisfied, the Yorktown battle choreography, and pretty much all of The Room Where it Happens and the Finale have some incredible and highly detailed stagecraft. Under less skilled hands, Hamilton could have been an unwieldy mess, but Kail and Blankenbuehler make a long show feel fluid and sleek, and that's no easy task.
I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.
#19Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 9:16pm
Well, I'm glad this issue has been brought up and then definitively settled all over the course of one post!
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#20Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 10:45pm
I can't judge the productions, but in terms of the score I'd have to give it to Hamilton. I've always wanted to like Evita because there is a perception that it's ALW's best score, and while it has its moments, to me I just can't get into the melodies (except the obvious songs like Don't Cry for Me and Rainbow High). I don't know why, but it often feels jarring to me and I find Eva's part in particular to be very screechy/unpleasant. To me, it sounds like a score that was not really written with the capabilities of the human voice (and what sounds pleasant/unpleasant) in mind.
In terms of the content of the show, I found Eva to be a very unlikeable character and the show was rather cold to me. Maybe that's the point, but Hamilton has many likeable characters, humour, emotion, and can be inspiring.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
#21Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/24/16 at 11:05pm
JBroadway said: "Why do people insist on phrasing their opinions as if they were facts? As a user of an internet message board, I suppose I should really get used it, but it's still such a pet-peeve...
"
Because direct statements make for a better conversation. Who wants to read endless "in my opinion" and "it seems to me" over and over in a post? The same technique is used in the best critical writing, and the assumption is that the reader is smart enough to distinguish between statement of fact and statements of opinion.
***
FWIW, I haven't even seen HAMILTON, but the OP goes way overboard in praising EVITA. At the very least, HAMILTON takes history a lot more seriously than EVITA, which should give the nod to the former's book.
And Patti LuPone was great, but hardly indispensable. I preferred Marti Webb, the "matinee" Evita in London. I later saw many fine Evitas, including Nancy Opel, Loni Ackerman, Florence Lacey and (in stock) Paige O'Hara.
#22Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/25/16 at 9:39am
BroadwayConcierge said: "JayG 2 said: "Score? Hands down Sir ALW wins. No comparison."
...and ya lost me.
Yes, Evita is one of ALW's best scores, but to say it prevails over Hamilton? Are you kidding?
Right? It's almost like people have different tastes and opinions about things!
#23Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/25/16 at 4:40pm
hork said "Right? It's almost like people have different tastes and opinions about things!?"
Exactly... I love both shows and, in my opinion, EVITA will be performed more often in the future. This is probably due to the fact (or my opinion) that EVITA is more conventional, which doesn't mean better. It's the same reason that in the world of opera, we will see many more productions of TURANDOT or LA BOHEME than NIXON IN CHINA.
#24Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/25/16 at 4:53pm
The original poster doesn't give two craps about our thoughts about EVITA v HAMILTON. This is just his way of getting his jabs in on HAMILTON and relieving himself of all the hate and animosity he's built up against it ever since it's become one of the most lauded musicals in recent theater history and some folks here who can't clearly see that are playing into his little trap.
I am in agreement with dramamama, I like both shows and I personally feel no need of playing this pointless little game of pitting one against the other.
<Insert huge eye roll here >
#25Evita vs Hamilton
Posted: 4/25/16 at 4:58pm
this entire comparison between Evita and Hamilton is BS. if you didn't see the original production of Evita you have no comparison? despite the fact that it got exceedingly tepid reviews when it premiered? I guess it's true you can't compare physical productions (not my fault I was born 23 years after it opened) so I wouldn't attempt to do so, but you can compare the score and things like performances (from the recordings). I would say that Andrew Lloyd Webber never wrote a better score, but everything else is miles behind Evita. I still think Hamilton has a better score but I think they're both great. Lin-Manuel vs Patti isn't even a correct comparison. Hamilton is an ensemble piece whereas Evita definitely is not. Patti was fantastic but so are many of the cast of Hamilton's ensemble.
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
