Trying to explain music from Broadway- Page 2

[SamIAm2]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 4:47pm

I don't think that it's a matter of convincing someone to like show music, more so a question of how to explain its appeal to you. And it's curious to me that it would be so difficult for me to identify the essence of why I love Broadway music so much. If someone from abroad were to ask me what I love about America, I could very easily list around 20 things right of the top of my head. Perhaps explaining a love for an art form is inherently more difficult, or maybe even impossible. As Louie Armstrong said when someone asked him to describe jazz, "If you've got to ask, you'll never know".

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 5:02pm

I like words as much as music, which is why I think showtunes have such an appeal for me- the lyrics, by the nature of the medium, are as equally important and must be up to par with the music. Sometimes, they may even need to be better.

Well said, as usual, Kad.

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Carlos, most of us have defended pop music as having its own merit. There's actually been relatively little snobbery in this thread.

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allthatjazz is right that the OP didn't ask us to rate the values of different genres, but to explain how he could get his friends to appreciate show music. The answer is probably "get them to an actual show, maybe more than one".

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On a side note, in the early days of American Idol (which thank God I don't watch any more), posters on message boards complained bitterly about "over-singing". Invariably they were talking about theater-trained singers who were merely enunciating their words. Apparently, enunciation is annoying until one gets used to it.

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Finally, is EricMontreal trying to resurrect Camille Paglia? Then we villagers need to break out the torches and pitchforks!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 5:07pm

SamIAm2, I think you're right that enjoyment of any art form is a matter of education. I wonder how many of us who love show music were either taken to the theater as a child or, as I did, grew up on church music that shared certain characteristics. (To be clear, my parents also valued musical theater even if they couldn't afford to go very often. They certainly exposed me to film and TV adaptations.)

[Idiot]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 5:10pm

To convince a person to like show music, you first have to introduce them to the character singing it and the dramatic context of the song -- and if they're not naturally inclined to want to know about those elements, good luck. Though there are many songs that can live off the stage without their full context, the depth of appreciation felt by most musical theatre fans has everything to do with character and story -- not just music and lyrics.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 5:28pm

It occurs to me that by the end of 9th grade (1969), I had studied THE KING AND I and contrasted PYGMALION with MY FAIR LADY in English class and performed scenes and songs from both musicals. Even though most of my contemporaries grew up to prefer rock 'n' roll, we at least had a basic understanding of how the classic American musical was supposed to work.

Is that still true today?

[runaways]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 5:49pm

Speaking of pop music, if anyone wants the perfect combo of pop and theatrics, they need to check out Janelle Monae's EP, Metropolis: The Chase Suite, and her LP, The ArchAndroid. Her suites create a Romeo and Juliet-esque love story and could be a great musical if anyone ventured to produce it.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 6:39pm

Gaveston, that English class sounds like a dream.

I think what you mentioned about "over-singing" plays a key role in why this generation is not thrilled by Broadway songs, it's not the character aspect or the lyrics, as there a many strictly pop and rock songs in the contemporary musical theatre catalog, it's the performances. Today's mainstream culture favors sweet and melodic over raw and emotional music, they're also not thrilled about legit sopranos or tenors or belting to the heavens. A clear example is the casting for Cossete and Johanna in their respective film adaptations.

There's also a huge double standard for everything Broadway related. People freak about about artists like Beyonce or Adele (rightfully so) and are only mildly impressed when they hear Broadway performers who are just as talented, if not more.

I'm always baffled and amused when media phenomenons like Susan Boyle occur. It's like people didn't know that there already are singers like that out there, even better singers. Why don't Elaine Paige or Sierra Boggess receive the same media attention?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 6:50pm

^^^It seems that TV audiences won't sit still for singers unless there is a competition full of melismas and screechy high notes. (It isn't all smooth and sweet.)

What does bother me is how rarely there is any reason for the vocal tricks. They are just thrown in "because".

I think Susan Boyle was a unique phenomenon: she caught the attention of listeners her own age, people who don't buy many albums any more.

P.S. The teacher of the "My Fair Lady" class and I did numerous shows in later years. She remained a close friend until her death 30 years later.


Updated On: 4/28/13 at 06:50 PM

[all that jazz]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 7:00pm

But she's around the same age as Elaine and sings the same kind of music. Why don't they buy her albums instead?

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That's a lovely story.

Updated On: 4/28/13 at 07:00 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 7:01pm

Because Boyle was A) introduced on a widely watched television show, B) a human novelty.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 7:07pm

I guess that sums it up.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 7:35pm

Not to make this the Susan Boyle thread, but I was shocked (and not in the good way) the first time I heard her sing the entire song before a live, studio audience.

They really packaged her on Britain's Got Talent (or whatever the show was) to make her TV debut "miraculous".

"Given 'em the old razzle-dazzle..."

[SamIAm2]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 7:47pm

Gaveston, in what ways was Susan Boyle's performance shockingly worse live?

[sephyr]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 9:19pm

I'm hoping that as more movie musicals are made that they will draw the attention of the masses. Hopefully we can get more shows on tv, and maybe other networks to show full musicals on tv (besides on PBS) so people are exposed to the vastly different kinds of musicals and talent in them. We need to get it mainstream again.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 11:12pm

AMEN!!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/29/13 at 6:08pm

Gaveston, in what ways was Susan Boyle's performance shockingly worse live?

Just to be clear, I did not see her live. I saw a telecast of a live performance she did when she was awarded a gold or platinum record for the song. (It was on TVLand or some other basic cable channel.)

She sounded more or less the same, though recording the vocal in one take tended to show flaws in her breath control.

What was shocking was the utter lack of stage presence. Without the quick cutting between viewer reactions and Simon Cowell's phony "shocked" expression, it was just your average church soloist: more or less on pitch, but without dramatic skill, charisma or visual appeal. (And that was after her well-publicized makeover.)

I agree that Joe Public should be listening to Elaine Paige or Patti LuPone, but that's show biz!

Updated On: 4/29/13 at 06:08 PM

[all that jazz]

Posted: 4/29/13 at 6:15pm

Gaveston, I had the same reaction when I first heard her, she didn't live up to the hype.

I was horrified with this performance in particular in which demonstrates her lack of stage presence.

http://youtu.be/C6zjMqW_hoU

Updated On: 4/29/13 at 06:15 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/29/13 at 6:58pm

Oh, Lord, I'd forgotten that duet! I saw it when it was first broadcast and it really is even worse than the performance I was describing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnNk4zpsqew


(I think. I know she wore the same ugly brown dress.)

[all that jazz]

Posted: 4/29/13 at 7:11pm

I think that's her best performance I've seen so far, which is sad.

The lady is talented but she needs more training.

Updated On: 4/29/13 at 07:11 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/29/13 at 10:11pm

You are a good and kind person, all that jazz. We could all take a lesson.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 4/29/13 at 10:26pm

Aw, Thanks Gav!! That means a lot coming from someone as wise and gracious as yourself.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 4/29/13 at 10:33pm

I feel the same way about Lea Michele. I feel like a lot of the people who watch Glee wouldn't be so amazed by her if they were familiar with other Broadway singers. She's a good singer, but for Broadway she's just okay, IMO.

(Disclaimer: I know that a lot of Broadway fans are Lea Michele fans, so obviously this wouldn't be true for everyone).

I feel the same way about Josh Groban, actually.