Going Clear
Going Clear
#1Going Clear
Posted: 3/29/15 at 11:23pm
Did anyone else catch Alex Gibney's Going Clear on HBO tonight? For anyone who's been following Scientology and the allegations of abuse, paranoia, corruption, and so on, there wasn't much in the way of bombshells- but it was nevertheless a scathing look at Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, and David Miscavige. It was none too kind in its depictions of John Travolta and Tom Cruise, either.
The footage of church galas were notable, coming across like a fusion of the Academy Awards and the Third Reich.
Even if you had knowledge of Scientology, it is a powerful documentary about greed and the human need to make sense of the self and the world at whatever cost.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 3/29/15 at 11:23 PM
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#2Going Clear
Posted: 3/29/15 at 11:29pm
I thought it did a really good job of showing how "normal" people wind up in it and then why they stay in it for so long.
Like you said, nothing really new if you had ever read a book or an article about Scientology, but it was still pretty riveting.
Updated On: 3/29/15 at 11:29 PM
#2Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 2:56am
Agree with everything you posted, Kad. Though I didn't really understand the extent of mental and physical abuse the "church's" leadership is responsible for. Kind of startling. I know this makes me very LCD, but I was hoping for more dirt on Travolta and, especially, Cruise. But, I suppose Gibney didn't want to turn it into a celebrity expose.
Still, one day, I hope someone gets the dirt straight from Nicole and Katie. And Johnny T's masseur.
#4Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 7:53am
Haven't watched the documentary yet, but I did recently read Lawrence Wright's book on which it's based. Travolta actually doesn't get raked over the coals too much in the book (in fact, Wright and Paul Haggis commend him for coming to the defense of a gay waiter after a fellow Scientologist makes a homophobic response), so it will be interesting to see a different portrayal of him here.
Cruise, on the other hand, is not portrayed too kindly in the book--willfully ignorant at best, knowingly malignant at worst. A counter-narrative to his Mister Nice Guy persona.
Can't wait to watch this.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#5Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 8:13am
That counter narrative has been leaking out all over the place in the past few years.
....but the world goes 'round
Roscoe
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
#6Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 8:50am
It was a fascinating film, from start to finish. Travolta actually comes off comparatively well, the story from the woman named Spanky who calls him from the Scientology prison only to have him tell her to get the hell out was remarkable, all the more so as he's such a cheerleader for the cause. The brainwashing must be really effective.
I sincerely doubt that Tom Cruise's films will be playing on HBO for quite a while.
I was just moved to real pity and sadness for most of these people who can't find anything else to do with their lives but join some ridiculous phony religion. I've loved that Haggis story of his reaction to the whole Xenu story since I read it a few years back, it's almost enough to make me forgive him for CRASH.
One thing more -- if the IRS doesn't have enough evidence to re-evaluate Scientology's religious tax-exempt status over this film (and apparently the book it is based on) then there's something seriously wrong.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#7Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 9:38am
The IRS stuff was the most shocking to me- I didn't actually know the history of the church's relations with the IRS in the 80s. The fact they buckled to the pressure of Scientology's litigation avalanche is stupefying.
Their tax-exempt status seriously needs to be revoked.
I grew up maybe a half hour from Clearwater; it is not an exaggeration to say that all of downtown Clearwater is owned, operated, and populated by Scientologists.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#8Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 9:41am
There really is something seriously wrong. Trying to get their status revoked might be like trying to get toothpaste back in the tube. It was interesting that they only mentioned in passing the number of "organization" (aka front groups) that are basically Scientology.
I too thought it was a well-put together documentary with info I was mostly familiar with, but it was really something seeing it all live and in action.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#9Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 9:54am
Yes, I imagine getting their status revoked would be near-impossible and result in costly and high-profile court battles. Church lawyers would certainly frame it as a first amendment issue and try to get it to higher courts.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 3/30/15 at 09:54 AM
#10Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 10:40am
I came away feeling quite sorry for Travolta. Here is a man who clearly has wanted to leave the church for nearly 30 years, and because of what's he revealed by being audited, it simply trapped. Yes...it's a trap of his own making, but still.
Cruise, however? TERRIFYING. And the saluting? And the military-esque uniforms? F*CKing batsh*t. Poor, poor Spanky. Poor, poor all of them.
#11Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 10:43amThe last woman interviewed, the one who spoke about losing everyone to the "church", was absolutely devastating. Her teary-eyed "you're welcome" to the interviewer, as the film ended just broke my heart!
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#12Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 11:12amI agree, it was quite the ending. I was also a fan of the drone shot zooming over the blue Celebrity Center in LA.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#13Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 12:34pmI wish they had more time. So much more to expose. The fact that Shelly Miscavige has been in the hole and not seen for 7 years should have been addressed. And the death (murder) of Lisa McPherson.
Wilmingtom
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/11
#14Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 6:17pmHorrifying. I still don't understand how someone with an IQ of over 50 could get sucked into such destructive foolishness.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#15Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 6:27pm
Well, I mean, didn't Haggis kind of detail it? And the other ex-members? They were idealistic people who thought they were going to change the world.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#16Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 6:46pmYeah, I thought that was one of the strongest things about it, that you really could understand how these people got sucked in.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#17Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 6:49pmAnd I think once you've invested this many thousands and thousands of dollars (so signed your life away in a billion year contract), the doubts you might have are squelched because you will have to admit you've been royally fleeced financially.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#18Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 7:38pmHas the loud woman from KING OF QUEENS gone silent? Surprised we didn't hear from her. Wasn't she the one who publicly criticized Miscavige for imprisoning his wife? I used to live close to the Celebrity Center in LA. Kinda nuts to think that at one time there were people being forced to live on soggy mattresses on the roof of that obnoxious blue building.
#19Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 7:41pmIf you do a google search, you'll see her commenting on the film last night.
#20Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 7:47pm
Yeah, that's cool and all. Just strange that she wasn't in the film itself. Maybe her choice, who knows.
BTW, it's been bugging me, the lovely Spanky reminds me of a certain actress with a similar demeanor and way of speaking. Does anyone know who I might be thinking of?
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#21Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 8:17pm
Leah might have her own book coming out.
There's a piece on Shelly Miscavaige in Vanity Fair. The problem with reading all this stuff is it can be a rabbit hole of its own and the next think you know, you're adept at the lingo and the various OT levels.
Scientology's vanished queen
Twitter @NamoInExile
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Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#23Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 8:35pmOh yeah, I meant to say above that I wasn't intending to detour off the subject of the documentary.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#24Going Clear
Posted: 3/30/15 at 8:35pm...because despite how very well it was packaged, there wasn't a ton of new or surprising information in the doc. So, the biggest asset it had was the first-hand accounts from those who left the church. Can you blame us for wanting to hear even more of those accounts - especially from well known dissenters?
