tick, tick...BOOM! at City Center- Page 4

[wonkit]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 2:11pm

My problem tends to be that "singing it well enough" in a town full of talented accomplished singers who can act seems like less than a rave.

[Jane2]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 2:12pm

ok, now do we or do we not all agree that Lin is singing many of the notes off pitch? And that it's noticeable, right?

Then, why is an actor who cannot sing the songs correctly cast in a show that is mostly singing, and mostly by that actor?

I am not looking for an argument, and I realize that many of you don't mind that distraction. My question is sincere.

To make an analogy in the arts- is a dancer cast in a show where he misses a lot of the steps? Is an actor cast who gets the lines wrong? I don't understand why the creative staff, who have trained ears, can listen to the singing and say it's good. Can anyone explain this?

I'm expecting to hear an answer such as "well, he has so much else going for the role....." My answer to that is I bet lots of other actors do too, but can sing.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 3:14pm

Obviously people think he can sing, since a lot of people on here have said as such. Lin-Manuel is popular, cool and talented. It was sold out the night I was there probably due to those facts. He was fantastic as Jon.

"Not totally getting the flak for Lin-Manuel's voice. No, he's not Raul Esparza, vocally. But he can definitely sing the score, he's genuinely charismatic and charming, had a clear personal connection to the material, and was able to sell it much better than many performers who would sing the hell out of it."

I totally agree, he has stated it was a dream role of his for a long time. I wish a cast recording would have been made, just to hear them all again. Ah well. Great show!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 3:16pm

"Lin-Manuel is popular, cool and talented. It was sold out the night I was there probably due to those facts."

Really? times 4

[Kad]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 3:25pm

"I'm expecting to hear an answer such as "well, he has so much else going for the role....." My answer to that is I bet lots of other actors do too, but can sing."

But they wouldn't be his take on the role.

I didn't notice pitch issues last night. But I don't have the best ear for that sort of thing. I was never put-off by his singing- in fact, I often found it much stronger than i remembered his voice being.

I don't go into a musical necessarily wanting or needing note-perfect singing from performers- and many of the greatest musical theater performers hardly give note-perfect singing performances.

Lin-Manuel is a great actor and personality on stage. His songs were delivered with genuine pathos and intent and he was a joy to watch.

Sometimes a performer is more than the sum of their parts. And you have to actually see the performance to get that.

Updated On: 6/29/14 at 03:25 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 3:26pm

I felt that with the Tyne Daly "Gypsy".

[Everlast85]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 3:29pm

I had a great time, and LMM was good in the role. I think it was sold out because the show is popular, and the actors involved. Oh, and he wasn't off pitch.

Why anyone would be complaining in a thread about a show that they haven't seen is beyond me.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 3:34pm

^^^^. YES


"Sometimes a performer is more than the sum of their parts. And you have to actually see the performance to get that."

Fantastic points.

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 6:02pm

i can appreciate and understand that. I just sometimes think of Encores more about the score, at least that's what I've always loved about it. I suppose the Off-Centers are a wee bit different though. No huge orchestras, etc...

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 6:33pm

To be fair, I had a similar issue with Alice Ripley and... Alice Ripley. I saw her do N2N on Broadway, and was floored by her and the show. Then, when she toured it in San Francisco, she opened her mouth and this... *thing* came out of it that was unlike what I had experienced on Broadway, or on the cast recording, and I later learned was just how shredded the role had made her voice at that point.

But once I got past wondering what had happened to her voice, I regrouped and realized she was still acting the hell out of the role, and engaged with her performance and her cast, and giving everything she was able to give on stage at that moment. And it was up to me to find my way into Alice Ripley doing the show the best way she could at that moment.

So, that was clearly a case where it was on me to see the show that was in front of me, rather than the show I had expected to see in that moment. And I ended up having an amazing time, and my friends who were there (who hadn't saw the show on Broadway or heard the cast recording before), thought she did an amazing job.

Lin is, by his own admission, not a great, polished singer. But he certainly put his heart and soul into his performance.

Every time you go to the theater, there will be potential issues to overcome, whether it is 450-pound seatmates, or bored kids nearby, or hard-of-hearing seniors, or cell phones, or smuggled-in food, or tuna sandwiches at Pippin, or all of the things that get discussed on here regularly.

But those are the external things. I also think sometimes we have to recalibrate internal things sometimes, like a below-the-title performer we enjoy calling out for that performance, seeing a show with different performers than the ones who were onstage when we fell in love with a show, seeing a show where the performer is clearly under the weather but pushing through, and on and on.

So, I do think it is often difficult, but ultimately rewarding, to learn to push those things aside, and try and experience what is front of you for what it is, rather than wish you were seeing something else. You also don't have to give up on the previous version being better, or that you would have enjoyed it more with someone else in a specific role, but that is better than not enjoying it all because of who was in the role.

As for Encores being about the score, the show has always been done with a small rock band, no?

[Jane2]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 7:31pm

"Why anyone would be complaining in a thread about a show that they haven't seen is beyond me."

If you're talking about me, I saw every performance of the show off broadway, as it was staged at my theater.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 7:34pm

Hater, I think theater trash was talking about the off center shows in general, not this show in particular.

[Kad]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 7:43pm

"f you're talking about me, I saw every performance of the show off broadway, as it was staged at my theater."

But this isn't that production.

[Everlast85]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 7:44pm

"If you're talking about me, I saw every performance of the show off broadway, as it was staged at my theater."

I was talking about this specific production of the show. You didn't see it, nor have you seen Lin-Manuel sing live. Why complain about someone you've never seen? Makes no sense to me.

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 7:46pm

"why is an actor who cannot sing the songs correctly cast in a show that is mostly singing, and mostly by that actor?"

I didn't have the problem with Lin that many did, but I do think "correctly" is subjective. Obviously, some people in this thread liked him and some didn't like him, so his performance was not interpreted the same by all. I thought he brought a lot of great moments to the role.

I don't think the same rigor for casting is brought to someone agreeing to do 5 shows for Encores, as opposed to mounting a proper production. For something like Encores, Lin is popular from creating and starring in his own show, has followers, and has been very vocal about how Larson and Sondheim have greatly influenced him.

So, someone who was inspired to create his own show after seeing Rent, and who has been very vocal about his adoration for Sondheim (who even made it into his Tony speech), who Sondheim then invited to perform in Merrily at Encores... it seems a pretty easy dotted line that he would be cast to play the person who inspired him who was also enamored by Sondheim.

I'd probably imagine he didn't have to audition, just like he didn't with Merrily as Sondheim suggested he do it.

So, I think the bad dancer/bad actor analogies aren't appropriate. He was cast based on his backstory lining up with the narrative thrust of the show, his popularity, and that had way more to do with it, so casting a celebrity is probably a more appropriate metaphor, although since I enjoyed him in the role, that would circle back around to "correctly" being subjective.

[Jane2]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 7:50pm

'I was talking about this specific production of the show. You didn't see it, nor have you seen Lin-Manuel sing live. Why complain about someone you've never seen? Makes no sense to me.'

I guess i shouldn't be surprised at how many people don't or can't read. TWICE I made it clear that I only heard the snippet on line and then I ASKED if that were the situation in the actual show. HELLO!

Yes, I am fully aware that the Tick Tick Boom in my theater is not the Tick Tick Boom you saw at Encores. But I know exactly how the music should sound. If it's not going to sound like the Jane St. show, I don't even WANT to see it, OK? We're all entitled to our opinions, you must remember that, son.

[Jane2]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 7:54pm

thanks haterobics, I appreciate your comments. I have to stand by my own opinion, though. You know all art is subjective.

If you want to get technical, the music was written a certain way, and it is on paper. If someone is not singing the notes that are written, they are not singing the song correctly (IMO). Many in this thread do not mind, or do in fact think Lin is singing it correctly. That's their opinion and that's fine.

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 8:02pm

If I saw Raul perform this repeatedly, and had a good memory of him, the experience, and that production, I can't imagine I would have even entertained the notion of seeing this at Encores.

[Everlast85]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 8:02pm

"ok, now do we or do we not all agree that Lin is singing many of the notes off pitch? And that it's noticeable, right?

Then, why is an actor who cannot sing the songs correctly cast in a show that is mostly singing, and mostly by that actor?"

I can read just fine, perhaps you shouldn't ask a question, then answer it yourself one line later? He can sing well, and he was singing the notes correctly. You weren't there, you wouldn't know if he did or not "sing the notes as written".

[Jane2]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 8:03pm

oy, I give up. (banging my head on my couch arm).

[Jane2]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 8:25pm

I'm going to take a departure from this debate to post an interesting anecdote from the Jane St. and Raul, for those who may be interested.

It was right after 9/11. Tick Tick was in the middle of its run. We closed down for a while. Raul was quite affected by the events. We reopened and towards the end of the show, Raul is at the piano, playing and singing, when suddenly the entire theater was rocked with the sound of an explosion, or shot. Raul stopped singing the song 'Why", and looked out at the audience wide eyed, like "what just happened?" I mean, after 9/11 who knows, it sounded like someone got shot. After a few seconds when nothing happened, Raul resumed singing, tears rolling down his face.

I'll never forget that.

Oh, it turned out to be a speaker that blew.

Updated On: 6/29/14 at 08:25 PM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 8:29pm

Couldn't agree more Everlast. The title of this thread is "tick, tick...BOOM! at City Center" after all :)

[Jane2]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 8:37pm

For anyone interested - I have one new and unopened cd from the original cast at the Jane, and two promotional cd's which contain Louder than Words, Sugar, and 30/90 play out. Message me if you want any of them.

[A Director]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 10:27pm

>If you want to get technical, the music was written a certain way, and it is on paper. If someone is not singing the notes that are written, they are not singing the song correctly (IMO). Many in this thread do not mind, or do in fact think Lin is singing it correctly. That's their opinion and that's fine.

Jane2 - I know it's YMO, but there are singers who sing every not as written, but are not good at selling the song or putting it across. IMO, there is more to singing than singing all the notes on the page.

[starcatchers]

Posted: 6/29/14 at 10:31pm

Jane, I sent you a message.