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One Day More

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Phantom of London
Broadway Legend
joined:3/26/08
Broadway Legend
joined:
3/26/08
One Day More#1
Posted: 12/9/10 at 3:22pm
This isn't a Les Miserables thread, but I agree Les Mis is one of the finest musical of all time, but want to relate it to the student uprising.

I was unlucky and did not go to university, not clever enough, my god would love to tread the boards, but not talented enough for that either, but today I am lucky not to go to university, now that tuition fees have been voted on today and trebled.

I accept graduates will earn morn than the average worker, so believe it does not hurt to pay a little bit of their education back. But I am a very fair minded person and have a socialist way, who believes what happened today in parliament is outrageous and will do a disservice to the theatre industry in the long run.

I know a lot of people on this board aspire to be part of the acting profession, but with this noose of debt round peoples neck, who would want to be a Thespian? I mean when people graduate that will have over 30.000 of debt in tuition fees alone and that debt again for living costs.

Acting is a profession that is hit and miss and actors can be resting for a long time between shows, when they eventually land a role, which isn't always well paid, they have everyday expenses and then the extra burden of a big debt to service and agents commission.

200 years ago actors were on the bottom rung of society, regarded as social misfits, tomorrow will we have actors who can tread the board?

Will I hear the people sing?
Updated On: 12/10/10 at 03:22 PM
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Mark_E
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joined:1/26/06
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One Day More#2
Posted: 12/9/10 at 5:25pm
I'm probably in the minority with my opinions but this is how I see it as a current MT student.

First of all, I am completely shocked and annoyed at all the violence that has occurred. Giving us a bad name!! However, I think the deal offered isn't as bad as is being made out.

My student debt after 3 years training will probably be around 28,000 (fees & maintenence). I don't have to pay this back until I earn more than 15,000 and even then it is only a small %. I am lucky that my fees are only around 3200 or whatever they are, a lot of people at independant drama schools pay 10,000 a year in just tuition fees.

Now under the new proposals, lets say my college charged the 6000 maximum. After 3 years that would give a student 38,000 of debt. However they wouldn't have to pay ANY of this back until they were earning over 21,000 a year, and still then it's just on a % basis. Relating this to MT/Acting, I bet the smallest smallest percentage of actors ever earn over this ammount in a single year. It may sound silly but surely a larger loan but higher threshold might just be the better option?

Relating this back to places like Mountview/Arts Ed that require the fees upfront, training at a place that is supported by student loans is very appealing.

At the end of the day, you needn't even THINK about fees until you start earning over 21,000 a year, and if you do earn that much then damn right you should pay for your education. I know I will be once I earn just 15,000.
Paterson
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One Day More#2
Posted: 12/9/10 at 6:27pm
The problem for most people is that as their salary increases to the point they have to start paying back their debt, they are also thinking about starting families, getting a mortgage or paying into a pension. I don't buy into the that it's some how OK to have a debt standing over you, so long as you aren't actually paying it back, or paying it back at a low rate. The longer you defer paying it, or make small repayments, the larger your debt will become when you consider the interest.

I'm not totally against students contributing to their education, but the level of individual debt is unfair. The only other wealthy country that expects individuals to pay for higher education is America, and they also expect you to take out private medical insurance and set up a college fund as soon as your children are born.

There have been a few adjustments to the bill since it was first proposed, which I think shows that student protests have not been futile, even though I do disapprove of the violence.

I did see a Les Mis cast member complaining about being held up on the way to the theatre because of the pesky student protesters. I don't think they were being ironic!
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mrkringas
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joined:9/28/05
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One Day More#3
Posted: 12/10/10 at 9:29am
There is such misunderstanding around Student Loan company debt. I have around 25k worth from my studies and it doesn't bother me one bit. Sure it would be nice to have the 100 extra in my pay each month but its nowhere comparable to commercial debt.

Nothing about student loan repayments should deter anyone from getting married or getting a mortgage. It doesn't count in your credit assessment. If anything the new plans will mean that a graduate earning 30k a year is only going to pay back 65 a month and see the debt wiped after 30 years.

The real scandal about whats going on with higher education is the 80% cut to teaching budgets. Tuition fees make sense when they share the cost between the individual and the State. Instead fees are being hiked and central funding is being slashed.

That doesn't make sense.

Although if I hear one more whinging middle class kid from Surrey in the media saying they can't afford to go to dental or medical school I may scream. Totally misses the point of how the system works.

Anyway back to main topic!
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ClapYo'Hands
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joined:11/29/09
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One Day More#4
Posted: 12/10/10 at 11:03am
Well one thing is for sure, no amount of fees are gonna stop me treading the boards!

Let others rise to take our place until the earth is free.
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n_les_mis
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One Day More#5
Posted: 12/10/10 at 1:43pm
I have to disagree as a student with (a minimal) loan, if you only repay the minimum it takes YEARS and YEARS to pay back, at the ower threshold you don't even cover the amount of interest added during the year let alone make a dent into what you actually borrowed. It IS now taken into accoutn when you apply for a mortgage believe me I have been told this by mortgage advisors and by friends with student debt trying to get mortagaes. The way it is also paid off means taht you still earn interest on payments you have technically already made for up to a year too.

Call me old fashioned but I dont like having any debt hanging over me, I dont even have an overdraft. So the thought of my kids having 60 000 worth of debt to pay to become a professional from which the public should benefit in the long-run is scary. As for people moaning that it is the middle classes moaning, its not. Of course it wont affect the very rich, it'll make no difference to them. It will hit the hardest working families who have lot all their tax-breaks the hardest and the poor.
WestEnd2
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One Day More#6
Posted: 12/10/10 at 2:50pm
I'm not a student at the moment (I have 3,000 of debt) - I've got my degree but one day I may go back to do my Masters so I do have a vested interest in this. On top of that, I also work in a university.

Luckily, I'm Welsh. However, I think the whole thing is ridiculous. I think fees needed to go up yes, but not by the amount that they are able to go up now. I'm sorry, but that is totally taking the mick (not the word I want to use there) especially when you think that most of the MPs telling us how it is for our own good etc etc never actually paid for their top rate educations.

I don't condone the violence at all, but I fully support the students protesting.

And well... don't get me started on Nick Clegg.
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Phantom of London
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One Day More#7
Posted: 12/10/10 at 7:10pm
65/100 a month is a lot of money, especially if you have no income coming in!

I do not agree with the violence of attacking police horses, vandalising Churchill's memorial etc, but when peaceful protests happen, when 1-2 million people took to the streets of London to protest against the Iraq war, the government of the time didn't listen.
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Mark_E
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One Day More#8
Posted: 12/11/10 at 4:57am
Oh yes it's a lot of money if you have no income, but you don't have to pay anything back until you are earning.
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ClapYo'Hands
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One Day More#9
Posted: 12/11/10 at 6:35am
Like somebody said, most actors never even earn over 21,000 how do they pay it back?
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tenorboyo
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One Day More#10
Posted: 12/11/10 at 8:09am
I seem to remember my Drama School H.E.C.S debt (Higher Education Contributions Scheme) was calculated on your weekly wage, as if that would be what you were earning for 52 weeks of the year. I was taking home less than kids in their first shows because of the taxation slug on my earnings . it was a happy day when i finally paid it off years after the fact and got a normal paypacket again.
Paterson
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One Day More#11
Posted: 12/11/10 at 8:59am
A lot of people are happy to earn a lower wage for a job they love, such as acting, for a few years, but when family committments come along they will decide that they'd rather earn more in a job they enjoy less, and that's when they'll be asked to repay the loan.

I'd say it's folly to think that loan doesn't count against you when applying for a mortgage. Even if a bank doesn't care if you have a committment to pay 100 a month, every month from your take home pay when calculating what you can borrow, you should. It was banks not making proper checks on individuals' ability to make repayments that cause the whole banking crisis and economic down-turn in the first place. Now we are encouraging teenagers to get into massive debt as a supposed solution.

I think students should pay a portion of their fees, but it's not fair to saddle them with massive debt.
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One Day More#12
Posted: 12/11/10 at 10:50am
I'm actually quite amazed by people who can say 'but you don't have to pay it back until you are earning 21,000...' - I have 3,000 of university debt which I don't have to start paying back yet and I can't get that off my mind - I can't imagine having a larger sum of money and having people saying 'oh, don't worry, you don't have to pay it back until you are earning 21,000' I wouldn't be able to do anything but think of it. It would be a shadow on my life.

The banks got us into trouble by giving loans to people who couldn't afford to pay it back - if we all take this 'we don't have to pay until we are making 21,000' attitude, how exactly are we going to avoid this all going the same way of the banks? A lot of people are never going to pay back the money.
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devonian.t
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One Day More#13
Posted: 12/11/10 at 12:16pm
If these politicians truly believe that the debt makes no difference to a person's decision-making, they should put their oney where their mouths are: they went to university at a time when it was totally free. Let them show some good faith and now pay back 27,000 each for the cost of their past study. After all, if tuition fees had been payable, they would all have gone to university for sure. Let them properly "share the country's debts".
Out of interest, are politicians taking an 80% cut in funding?