1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by madbrian 2011-07-04 14:05:39.0

Unedited!


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2011-07-04 14:17:56.0

I am watching but I have yet to see that famous founding father, John Quincy Adams! Where is he???


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by madbrian 2011-07-04 15:12:33.0

He'll be there later, when they abolish slavery.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by best12bars 2011-07-04 16:07:17.0

They haven't even gotten to Gomez Adams yet. This movie sucks.

And why is it "unedited?" There's no nudity or swear words!!


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by CapnHook 2011-07-04 16:37:59.0

No nudity or swear words?? How did they EVER get this greenlit in the first place?!!


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by tommyboy 2011-07-04 17:05:39.0

It's all about that never-ending argument between the sexes --

Salt-peter vs. Pins.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by givesmevoice 2011-07-04 18:15:48.0

I am watching but I have yet to see that famous founding father, John Quincy Adams! Where is he???

He was home sick with dysentery, I believe.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by DAME 2011-07-04 18:26:34.0

Awful. Ugh.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by madbrian 2011-07-04 20:04:35.0

'And why is it "unedited?" There's no nudity or swear words!!'

I believe it's because they included Cool Considerate Men, which was edited out of the commercial release because Nixon disapproved.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by best12bars 2011-07-04 23:48:59.0

madbrian---I hope you know my first post here was in jest. Yes, you're right, Cool Considerate Men was cut by Jack Warner prior to release due to pressure from the Nixon administration after a private screening was held with some of his associates.

And what they show now on TCM (and the DVD release) is actually the "director's cut" of the film. It restores Cool Considerate Men, plus many (but not all) of the scenes that were shot and then cut for time/length issues.

So this really isn't the "unedited" version. It's the director's cut.

The true unedited version was released on Pioneer Laser Disc, and it includes the second verse of "Piddle, Twiddle" and other trimmed scenes. So while the director's cut is a vast improvement over the original theatrical release, it's still not everything.

OH ... and Gomez Adams doesn't' appear in this movie. He and First Lady Morticia didn't hit the White House until later.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by madbrian 2011-07-05 08:11:43.0

^^^ I did know that, I just wanted to throw in the bit of trivia regarding Nixon.

Another little known tidbit: the Louisiana Purchase would have been finalized during Gomez' administration, but he lost control everytime someone spoke French.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by JohnBoy2 2011-07-05 16:40:32.0

Peter Hunt said on Sunday, that although he doesn't prefer the laserdisc cut (he's an idiot, then), he is allowing it to be included in a Blu-ray release (along with his inferior cut), early 2012. So yay!!!!!, for that. I was so disappointed after they found a complete, pristine print, that he edited that for the DVD. The DVD has a brown tone to it, that I dislike and an inferior soundtrack, when compared to the laserdisc. We watched the laserdisc edition on the 4th. Even though the DVD's image is superior, overall. I just can't stand the cuts.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by JohnBoy2 2011-07-05 16:40:34.0

Peter Hunt said on Sunday, that although he doesn't prefer the laserdisc cut (he's an idiot, then), he is allowing it to be included in a Blu-ray release (along with his inferior cut), early 2012. So yay!!!!!, for that. I was so disappointed after they found a complete, pristine print, that he edited that for the DVD. The DVD has a brown tone to it, that I dislike and an inferior soundtrack, when compared to the laserdisc. We watched the laserdisc edition on the 4th. Even though the DVD's image is superior, overall. I just can't stand the cuts.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by best12bars 2011-07-05 18:42:58.0

JB2---I hadn't heard that the laser disc version (full unedited movie) was coming out on the Blu-ray Disc, and I'm really glad to hear it! Excellent news. At the time of the DVD release, I had heard that there were still a few shots that they couldn't find the negative for, so that may have played into Peter Hunt's decision to cut it. I hope that's not true, but I would still prefer a scratchy shot or two from an old print, as long as everything is included.

And I totally agree with you about the sound. The laser disc had excellent audio, but the DVD was a muffled mess, by comparison. I certainly hope they fix that.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by jasonf 2011-07-05 19:08:50.0

Best - do you know if they ever filmed Lee's reprise? I love that on the cast album and am always disappointed it's not in the film.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by best12bars 2011-07-06 04:50:47.0

Yes, they did film Lee's reprise, and it's on the laser disc release (along with the second verse of Piddle, Twiddle).

So, according to JB2, you'll be able to see it on the forthcoming Blu-ray Disc.



My recollection is that the laser disc release was indeed the entire stage show. All the dialogue songs and reprises intact. I played Edward Rutledge years ago, and saw the laser disc version not long after, and I remember thinking, "wow, this is the whole thing!" Nothing was missing.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by jasonf 2011-07-06 10:41:22.0

That would be great -- let's hope this is true then! :)
It's one of my absolute favorite movies - I watch it every year.

Never had laser disc, though, so didn't know that was all included.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by best12bars 2011-07-06 10:52:02.0

The difference between the DVD and the old laser disc is probably only about 5 minutes of running time, I would guess. But it includes some memorable stuff, to be sure. The two musical sequences mentioned above, but also a line of dialogue here, a reaction shot there, a few quick exchanges, etc.

If you know the stage show, just be assured that it's all there in the "unedited" laser disc version.

And if the BD includes this, I will definitely upgrade and buy it, no question! (I'm also hoping for a much better sound mix, as JB2 mentioned.)


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by JohnBoy2 2011-07-06 15:50:40.0

Yes, I hope it comes to pass. There was a showing of 1776 on Sunday, at the Aero Theatre in Santa Monica, CA, and Peter Hunt took questions. It was reported by a couple of people who were there that he said what I reported, here. Only time will tell.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by best12bars 2011-07-06 19:40:26.0

My fingers are crossed, and thanks very much for sharing the news!


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by justoldbill 2011-07-07 02:26:26.0

The film of 1776 has a very funny history. After the initial engagement at Radio City Music Hall, and before it played most of it's other scheduled engagements, it was trimmed down to a general-release running time, not unlike "A STAR IS BORN". (Thanks again, Mr. Warner.) This is the release that can be seen on the VHS version of the film. Not only was "Cool Considerate Men" deleted, but also chunks of the various debate scenes, including A LOT of the first debate scene. Other losses included the reprise of "The Lees Of Old Virginia" (noted before), slices of "Piddle, Twiddle And Resolve", snippets of "He Plays The Violin", and other minor trims here and there. The first (standard) laser disc edition was this same version. Amazingly, the Columbia soundtrack album also reflected these trims.

When Pioneer released the first "complete" letterboxed version of the LD (in tandem with an extended, letterboxed LOST HORIZON), it generally succeeded in restoring the film to it's original running time, which added about forty minutes to the film. The only snippet not found at the time was one line of dialogue after "Cool Considerate Men", with McNair's rhetorical question, "How'd you like to try and borrow a dollar from one of them?" This snippet was subsequently found and inserted into the DVD version.

When Pioneer compiled the footage for the LD, it was thought that the negative elements for the missing footage were forever lost, and the gaps were filled in with whatever positive elements they could find, including one monochromatic work print of a small scene between Lyman Hall and Cesar Rodney. This accounts for the varying video quality of the disc. The Overture and Intermission Music on this disc seems to have been reconstructed from the film's background score sessions.

Having done the show three time myself, I hoped to God that this would be the version released on DVD. Unfortunately, it was not. In the meantime, many of the missing negative elements had been found and restored, but not all. When Peter Hunt put the DVD together, it seems he reinstated only the footage that could be culled from the existing and restored negative elements for consistant video quality. He also made the REALLY BAD choice of removing some of the film's musical underscoring, much of which reflected the original stage show's arrangements. I can't imagine what he was thinking in doing that.

I do hope it's true that the Pioneer version will find it's way to Blu-ray. I need a good reason to finally convert.


1776 starting on TCM right now!!!
Posted by JohnBoy2 2011-07-08 19:59:46.0

The Overture, Intermission and Exit music were all from the film's underscoring. However, these were done from notes found, when the film was originally intended as a road show. The addition of the overture, ending with "But, Mr. Adams", going into the opening credits, adds an excitement that the DVD just can't match.