Transposition on Broadway- Page 2

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 3/9/09 at 7:40pm

"Listening to all the major cast recordings Ethel Merman's (at least for Coming up Roses) recording appears to be in a different key than the rest..the rest also sound slightly different. Patti and Daly sound like they are singing in the same key while Bernadette and Angela sound different from them all. I could be wrong though."

I'm not a musician so I can't swear to this, but my understanding, as I wrote earlier, is that yes, Merman is in a different key from everyone else (for the reason I explained).

I think Peters and LuPone are in the same key (as each other, not the same key as Merman on the original cast recording), and that key (which is the key in the published score) is a half-step down from what Merman sings on the cast recording. Daly a half-step down from that, and Lansbury another half-step down.

If I'm wrong about this, I hope someone who does know will correct me.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 3/9/09 at 7:45pm

" I gather, Nobodyhome, that you are saying that Merman's songs on the OBCR are in a higher key than any of the other Rose's songs in the subsequent cast recordings. All very interesting and confusing."

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Sorry if I wasn't entirely clear.

Brian Kellow (in his Merman bio) says that Merman's throat doctor warned her that the songs were in too-high keys but she thought she'd be fine. After she had her problems and had to miss several performances, the songs were all taken down a half step and that's what she sang for the rest of the run. And those keys were the ones in the published score and the licensed score.

So we'll probably never hear another Rose sing those songs in the keys on the recording.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 3/9/09 at 8:00pm

Actually, this is all fascinating to me. You have cleared everything up, nobodyhome. Now all I need is a piano.

[sparrman]

Posted: 3/9/09 at 8:18pm

"A lot of Raul's solos in COMPANY are higher than the originals, by as much as a perfect fourth IIRC."

This is totally untrue. Without closely comparing the two recordings I can't say there are NO differences, but they're all extremely close. A FOURTH? No way. Are you thinking maybe that he ends "Someone is Waiting" on a higher note than the original? That doesn't mean the key was changed, it's just an alternate note to the melody.

[Tevye the Dairyman]

Posted: 3/9/09 at 8:27pm

yah, those keys aren't really touched for the Doyle revival. Now in the '95 revival they were lowered considerably to accomodate Boyd Gaines. But nuffin like that in the most recent one.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 3/9/09 at 8:33pm

IIRC, that "Someone Is Waiting" end is an alternate ending in the score (though the way it's notated, it's easy to miss). Adrian Lester also sang it, and Dean Jones sang it at least sometimes, though not on the cast recording.
Updated On: 3/9/09 at 08:33 PM

[Elphie3]

Posted: 3/9/09 at 8:35pm

I actually far prefer the original (film) key for "Part of That World"

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 3/9/09 at 10:19pm

I believe that Raul Esparza sang the role of Bobby in the same keys as Dean Jones did in the original. You may be confused because the keys for Bobby's songs were actually LOWERED for Boyd Gaines for the revival in the 1990's, as is reflected on that cast recording.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 3/10/09 at 8:47am

I wish I could say that I did this comparison below. I didn't, a friend of mine did. But I'm going to post it here. These are the keys in which the Broadway and film Roses sang a couple of the songs.

"Some People"

Ethel demo, E minor/G major (high note, C). This is the highest of all the keys.
Ethel OBC, E minor/G major (high note, C)
Ethel live, D minor/F major (high note, B flat) (a whole step lower)
Vocal Score, D minor/F major (high note, B flat)

Lisa Kirk/Ros Russell (movie), G minor/B flat major (high note, E flat) This is the lowest of all the keys, a full fifth lower than the score key.

Angela recordings, C sharp minor/E major (high note, A); the last section is *lower*, played in C minor/A flat major, with the high note A flat. The beginning of the song is one half step lower than the score; the end is one whole step lower than the score.

Tyne recordings, D minor/F major (high note, B flat); the exact key from the vocal score and Ethel's live recording.

Lavin live, C sharp minor/E major (high note, A); half step lower than the score, Tyne; same as Angela except that Linda sings the whole song in this key instead of lowering the end.

Bette, D minor/F major (high note, B flat), the vocal score key

Bernadette, D minor/F major (high note, B flat), the vocal score key

Patti at Ravinia, D minor/F major (high note, B flat), the vocal score key

Patti at City Center, D minor/F major (high note, B flat), the vocal score key

Patti live on Broadway, D minor/F major (high note, B flat), the vocal score key

Patti, revival CD, D minor/F major (high note, B flat), the vocal score key


"Small World"

Ethel OBC, C major, high note, B (the highest)
Ethel live, B major, high note A sharp (half step down)

Vocal Score, B major, high note A sharp

Lisa Kirk/Ros Russell (movie), E flat major, a minor sixth lower than the vocal score (the lowest)

Angela recordings, B flat major (high note, A); the middle section with Herbie is transposed up for him, and then modulates back down for Angela, but then modulates a half step higher! The last section is *higher*, B major, the score key.

Tyne recordings, B flat major (high note, A); modulates up to E flat major for Herbie, and then modulates down/up to C major for the end. Same as Ethel's high key.

Lavin live, A major (high note, G sharp); half step lower than Tyne; it modulates in the same way so that the end is in B major, the score key.

Bette, A major (high note, G sharp); modulates up one half step to B flat major.

Bernadette, B major (high note, A sharp), the vocal score key

Patti at Ravinia, C major! (high note, B), Ethel's original high key!

Patti at City Center, B major (high note, A sharp), the vocal score key

Patti live on Broadway, B major (high note, A sharp), the vocal score key

Patti, revival CD, B major (high note, A sharp), the vocal score key

[Prisoner 24601]

Posted: 3/10/09 at 9:48am

This is all very interesting! Every time I played pit for an MTI show, it became immediately clear from trying to play along with recordings that the keys we were given were not the keys from the cast recording, and they were also different from the published vocal selections (which is maddening when trying to prepare for auditions, not knowing how high or low you'll actually have to sing!). Most of the time, the transposition would be noted in each musician's score- it would say "down a half step- 6/03/06" or "in Eb- 2/5/00" under the title of some numbers. And MTI lisences the touring versions of a lot of numbers (also noted under the titles) to trim them for time, which could mean keys are altered as well.

[JBSinger]

Posted: 3/10/09 at 2:17pm

One should also note that frequently, the show didn't go to the licensing house until after it was done touring. So, many times, the touring orchestration and keys end up as the licensed version of the show.
Case in point - "Johanna" in Sweeney Todd. Even the published score has this song in Eb. but the score you license from MTI has it in F (which is a big deal to a baritone navigating his passagio to sing this part).
AND..sometimes the authors go back and "fix" a show, which could end up with different keys (like Baker's Wife).

[sparrman]

Posted: 3/10/09 at 3:02pm

So it is with Secret Garden; the tour version is what you get when you rent the show. Numerous changes, including ending "Lily's Eyes" in G rather than Broadway's F#.

[Shakespearean]

Posted: 3/11/09 at 12:05pm

I was told awhile ago that both MTI and Tams-Witmark sometimes licensed shows in 'easier keys' knowing they would more often be played by school and community orchestras. I don't have a specific example to cite but I can say that I haven't seen a lot of scores in D flat

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 3/11/09 at 2:18pm

Continuing the Company debate:
I'm a bari-tenor. I can not hit the top notes in "Being Alive" as written, unless I sing along with Boyd (obviously, it's lower) or Raúl. So, I don't think it was rasied, or at least, that particular song.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 3/11/09 at 2:46pm

MTI licences its scores in the normal key, but they will send you a transposed version of any song, full orchestration included, for something like $150 a song.

[sparrman]

Posted: 3/11/09 at 3:33pm

Comparing the OBC Company recording with the most recent revival, all of Robert's songs are in the same keys except "Being Alive", which Raul sings a half step up. The original starts in D and ends in Eb, the revival modulates from Eb to E.
Updated On: 3/11/09 at 03:33 PM

[dutch46mill2]

Posted: 3/11/09 at 7:35pm

To Beltingbaritone
You refer to Diana singing Once Upon A time in a different key than written. Well what you heard was when she had a sore throat and allergy problem but instead of booking off sick she trooped it out in an easier key. However if the last two performances were you*8tubed you would have heard she sang it in the proper key. Point is many times the change in key is not because of inability but because of circumstance. Thanks

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 3/11/09 at 9:58pm

I have perfect pitch. Patti sings "Everything's Coming Up Roses" and "Rose's Turn" a half-step lower than written.

They did transpose Bobby's songs up for Raúl. "Marry Me a Little" is a whole step up from the '95 revival. "Being Alive" is a half-step higher than the original key.

Matthew Morrison sang "Younger Than Springtime" a half-step lower in the theatre but in the original key on the cast recording.

I believe the Millie keys that are licensed reflect the tour keys. Many times, shows are altered a little bit for the national tours, making scene shifts easier or whatnot, and that's what is licensed. I'm doing Millie right now, so I'm pretty familiar with certain changes that were made for the licensed version of the show. For example, the scene that's now before "Muqin" is different than on Broadway.

~Steven

[binau]

Posted: 3/12/09 at 5:21pm

nobodyhome,

I just confirmed with a piano that the 03 Bernadette cast recording ends on a B natural not B flat as Patti's does so there is some variation between the piano/vocal score in that case. (I suppose it's a semi tone higher then in key)

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 3/12/09 at 5:54pm

"I just confirmed with a piano that the 03 Bernadette cast recording ends on a B natural not B flat as Patti's does so there is some variation between the piano/vocal score in that case. (I suppose it's a semi tone higher then in key)"

Which song are you talking about? As I said, I didn't write the comparison list that I posted above and I'm not a musician, but I'm wondering.

"I have perfect pitch. Patti sings 'Everything's Coming Up Roses' and 'Rose's Turn' a half-step lower than written."

A half-step lower than what's in the vocal score or a half-step lower than Merman on the OBCR?
Updated On: 3/12/09 at 05:54 PM

[binau]

Posted: 3/12/09 at 9:49pm

Oh sorry, I meant "Everything's coming up roses."

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 3/12/09 at 10:09pm

Half-step lower than the vocal score and the way Bernadette sang the songs.

~Steven