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Elphaba
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"I think this is different from freedom of speech in that it's not like arguing about politics or religion, it's dangerous."

I disagree Jane, Hitler needed a cause to unite Germany, and hating the Jews was it, it WAS religion, but even more so, politics, or rather economics.......the old "you have nothing, so bash the guys that have the money, in this case the Jews"......it was definately politics (or the economics there of), and boiled over into religion
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
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Elphaba
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Austin, the answer to your question is simple......when a crime is committed and it can be proved that it was a hate crime. Putting up a website that is against a group of people is not a hate crime.......bashing someone while screaming "I hate you, you _______(fill in the blank) is.
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
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nitsua
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I wasn't disagreeing with you.

If a person comes across this site, or any other hate site, is influenced by that site and goes out to kill whoever... We'd all agree it's a hate crime, right?

I know the line is hazy on what the public should and shouldn't be able to see, read or play.

Like most of the constitution, it's fine on paper, but doesn't really work well in its execution.

Point is, how far does it have to go for it to be a crime? I don't want to get into the whole violence in the media, but it seems that's where I'm going.

I'm not disagreeing. I think this and sites like it are awful. The owners probably don't care who comes along to read their material. They wouldn't care if some 14 or 15 year old came along, became influenced, and then went off to shoot up some Jews.

Maybe the Government should take more action on who sees what.
"Writing is like prostitution. First, you do it for love, then you do it for a few friends, and finally you do it for money." ~ Moliere
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Jane2
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Elphaba, that wasn't really what I meant. I meant that people are free to talk about and post websites about their own religions, prostelitizing (sp) and such, or they're free to criticize the president and our government without punishment. I wasn't referring to people like Hitler who was out to extinguish an entire race.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
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Elphaba
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Jane, what we mean, and what we say are sometimes not clear to the person hearing or reading it.


"Maybe the Government should take more action on who sees what."

and that Austin, is exactly what we do NOT need. I do not want the Gov't taking a parental role......Big Brother has way too much power as it is. We do not need Big Brother controlling the internet.
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
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nitsua
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I agree, Elphaba.

If the Government makes porn sites put up 18+ warnings, why can't they do the same to these sites?
"Writing is like prostitution. First, you do it for love, then you do it for a few friends, and finally you do it for money." ~ Moliere
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Jane2
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"Jane, what we mean, and what we say are sometimes not clear to the person hearing or reading it."

Well, I know, and that's why I clarified. What's wrong?
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
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Elphaba
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well, those are useless too, as all they would have to do is put in a fake birthday anyway, right? But I guess it is something........
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
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trinaaron
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:Although this thread is about antisemitism, the hatred of gays "Or any other socially unaccepted behavior?" is equally protected under free speech. It sucks, but it's the law."

Here's the thing. It DOESN'T suck that these people have this protection under the law. It's called freedom. And it's a wonderful thing. You also have the right to express your views. The GOVERNMENT cannot restrict it.

"So when does it become a hate crime?"

It becomes a hate crime when someone is hurt. You cannot say go out and kill someone. That is not protected by free speech. Is there a blurry line where someone might say "all people with blue eyes deserve to die", and then someone goes out and kills people with blue eyes? Of course. We don't live in a perfect world. But what is the alternative.
"I always feel guilty patronizing Barnes & Noble because they've essentially put every small neighborhood bookstore out of business, but they have a cafe!" Seth Rudetsky "Broadway Nights" Go Jeff Burton #31
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Jane2
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I'm starting this day over.

Have a good one!
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
Updated On: 2/18/08 at 12:38 PM
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nitsua
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What if http://www.godhateswomen.com was a real site? Feminist groups across the country would go ballistic, but it's okay to have a site called http://www.godhatesfags.com.

I wouldn't complain if just a little bit of those freedoms were taken away, so I wouldn't have to even know that site existed.

If this site was called http://www.godhatesjews.com, it'd be another matter.
"Writing is like prostitution. First, you do it for love, then you do it for a few friends, and finally you do it for money." ~ Moliere
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Jane2
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One more clarification, lol.

It does suck that these hate groups become larger and larger. It's the law, but that's the sucky side of it.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
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trinaaron
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"I wouldn't complain if just a little bit of those freedoms were taken away, so I wouldn't have to even know that site existed.

If this site was called http://www.godhatesjews.com, it'd be another matter."


I cried a little when I read this. You may be willing to give away your freedoms, but I certainly am not. If you give away a little, very quickly it becomes a lot. By the way, when I read your post it sounded like you wouldn't care about a site called godhatesjews.
"I always feel guilty patronizing Barnes & Noble because they've essentially put every small neighborhood bookstore out of business, but they have a cafe!" Seth Rudetsky "Broadway Nights" Go Jeff Burton #31
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nitsua
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"By the way, when I read your post it sounded like you wouldn't care about a site called godhatesjews."

That's not what I mean and I apologize. I think if this site "www.jewwatch.com" was named "godhatesjews" it wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
"Writing is like prostitution. First, you do it for love, then you do it for a few friends, and finally you do it for money." ~ Moliere
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trinaaron
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I honestly didn't think that was what you meant. I just thought that if I read it like that others might have too, so you might want to know.
"I always feel guilty patronizing Barnes & Noble because they've essentially put every small neighborhood bookstore out of business, but they have a cafe!" Seth Rudetsky "Broadway Nights" Go Jeff Burton #31
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smartpenguin78
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I am not going to comment on most of this but since my "untaught" comment seems to have started Austin on this I'll address that:
My comment was meant to apply to this situation, taking it to the position of gays being "taught not to be gay" is nonsensical.

The accurate understanding of my comment is that the people who hate other people, be they Jews, women, or gays, need to be taught the facts and we have to hope it would change their minds. The "gays can be taught not to be so" thing, is not the truth and does not apply. It is misinformation, incorrect and wrong, just as teaching that there was no Holocaust is misinformation.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
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papalovesmambo
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no, smarty, clearly what we need here is some authority to decide what is and what is not allowed to be spoken or written. possibly a new cabinet-level position appointed by the president and approved by congress who will tell us what we can and cannot say or write: secretary of thought perhaps? it's always the best intentions that bring about the worst consequences.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
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smartpenguin78
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"Secretary of Thought," maybe papa.
If you add that they monitor websites, newspapers, and other items to make sure that everything they list follows an "objective" standard, chosen by the most objective of all- whoever puts the guys in charge?
Sounds like the answer to me.
Maybe we should call it a "Ministry of Truth"?
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
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papalovesmambo
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now you got it, smarty. see the general public is far too stupid to be able to process information on their own so they clearly need someone to do it for them.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
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papalovesmambo
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r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
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papalovesmambo
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r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
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thetinymagic2
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This thread was excellent reading. Here are some links for xtra info, if you're interested.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083090/
(an excellent film which was extremely controversial at the time, and still is.....)
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/strwhe.html
(same topic, FYI)
http://www.skokielibrary.info/s_info/in_biography/attempted_march/index.asp
(attempted Nazi march - 1977)

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