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PBS democratic presidential debate

touchmeinthemorning
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PBS democratic presidential debate#1
Posted: 12/13/07 at 6:21pm
Ok, so Kucinich is left out of this debate? Why?

He's the only major candidate left out. What an insult to democracy! If they're too far left, leave em out? How absurd. AKA, there is no one on that stage who approves of gay marriage and no one who believes we should leave Iraq now.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown
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papalovesmambo
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pbs democratic presidential debate#2
Posted: 12/13/07 at 6:45pm
after the gop just let keyes debate, this is really just an out and out slap.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

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touchmeinthemorning
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pbs democratic presidential debate#2
Posted: 12/13/07 at 7:12pm
independentprimary.com has a petition to allow for these candidates to continue to debate.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown
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jacobtsf
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pbs democratic presidential debate#3
Posted: 12/13/07 at 7:53pm
Both Kucinich and Gravel do not have offices in Iowa (which I can understand since they have no chance of winning the state) and this was an Iowa debate. That is the reason that neither were there. Keyes does have an office in Iowa.
Papa- The GOP did not let Keyes debate, the state of Iowa (as well as the newspaper that sponsored this debate) did.

So, now that we have cleared that up, what did you think of the actual debate? I thought it was very civil (which was needed) and particularly showed the strengths of Richardson (the only candidate running on either side that deserves the position, but who will never get it). I was also impressed with the humor that the candidates seemed to have, parts of this debate were actually fun, unlike yesterday's debate where the only laughing came whenever Keyes showed up being his crazy over-dramatic self.
David walked into the valley With a stone clutched in his hand He was only a boy But he knew someone must take a stand There will always be a valley Always mountains one must scale There will always be perilous waters Which someone must sail -Into the Fire Scarlet Pimpernel
touchmeinthemorning
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pbs democratic presidential debate#4
Posted: 12/13/07 at 8:52pm
That's hardly the reason. The Iowa debates have always had very clear rules as far as how one gets to become a part of it. Kucinich fit all of those standards. He just didn't fit the pro-war standard. Or the pro-gay standard.

I'm actually proud of how Keyes responded to being passed over consistently. He is 100% right. You don't have a fair debate if one party gets significantly more time to speak. And that's about all that I agree with Keyes on. Well, maybe I agree with the abolition of income tax.

I think the debate was cordial, but completely uninteresting. We literally found out nothing mroe about these candidates beyond the fact that they can play nice if the pressure is there to do so.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown
Gothampc
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pbs democratic presidential debate#5
Posted: 12/13/07 at 9:10pm
Too bad they couldn't find a decent moderator. It's also too bad that the Dems won't allow tough questions. It will hurt them in the end.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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jrb_actor
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pbs democratic presidential debate#6
Posted: 12/13/07 at 9:18pm
you have to be out of your ****ing mind, goth, if you think you can get away with saying the dems can't take tough questions after the past 7 years. your logic is Stunning.
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jacobtsf
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pbs democratic presidential debate#7
Posted: 12/13/07 at 9:35pm
Touchme- It really is the reason. I know many in the Iowa politics world who wanted Kucinich there (Gravel...eh, not so much) but he knows that Iowa is a lost cause and that he has to focus on other states.
Keyes was constantly ignored because of his horrible attitude. In the Iowa debate it is the moderator in charge, and that was shown yesterday. She tried giving him questions and he would not answer them, so she figured "Why should I bother asking him any other questions?" which was the perfect thing to do.

And Goth- I am wondering if you saw the Republican debate. Those questions were nowhere near as tough as some of the questions today (though the majority of the questions were the same for both parties).
David walked into the valley With a stone clutched in his hand He was only a boy But he knew someone must take a stand There will always be a valley Always mountains one must scale There will always be perilous waters Which someone must sail -Into the Fire Scarlet Pimpernel
Gothampc
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pbs democratic presidential debate#8
Posted: 12/13/07 at 11:45pm
"And Goth- I am wondering if you saw the Republican debate. Those questions were nowhere near as tough as some of the questions today (though the majority of the questions were the same for both parties)."

I saw both debates. Here is an example of the softball questions for Democrats.

Republican: Suggest a New Year's resolution for one of your opponents. (i.e. criticize one of your opponents).

Democrat: What is your personal New Year's resolution?
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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jacobtsf
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pbs democratic presidential debate#9
Posted: 12/14/07 at 10:00am
because both of those questions will help me choose who I am going to vote for...right?

Criticizing their opponents is exactly what politicians WANT at a debate. To have to answer a very personal question is much harder.
David walked into the valley With a stone clutched in his hand He was only a boy But he knew someone must take a stand There will always be a valley Always mountains one must scale There will always be perilous waters Which someone must sail -Into the Fire Scarlet Pimpernel
Gothampc
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pbs democratic presidential debate#10
Posted: 12/14/07 at 11:30am
"Criticizing their opponents is exactly what politicians WANT at a debate. To have to answer a very personal question is much harder."

Even you aren't believing that answer.

The Dems got off with light answers like "lose weight" and "spend more time with family". The Republicans had to work much harder to answer that question.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
touchmeinthemorning
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pbs democratic presidential debate#11
Posted: 12/14/07 at 11:35am
Not a single one of the Republicans answered that question. They spoke about themselves, or to America at large, or to all of the candidates. Guiliani, if I recall, did say something to Romney, but it was a joke more than anything.

I don't think you have to go much further than the Russert-moderated debate to know that the Dems were asked VERY tricky questions -- including tough follow-ups.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown
touchmeinthemorning
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pbs democratic presidential debate#12
Posted: 12/16/07 at 10:50am
How about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RXFWojq3Uc

Sounds like no one is claiming responsibility for excluding Kucinich. This is absurd.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown
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JoeKv99
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pbs democratic presidential debate#13
Posted: 12/16/07 at 3:53pm
I excluded Kucinich. I made a very clear rule: "The Democrats have to all be viable, electible candidates. No nutballs. They just make us look silly."

Sorry, that's the way it is.
No good can possibly come from using this vast wasteland of error and deliberate deceit. You should get off of it and warn others away. You should make sure your children and grandchildren know what a corrupt and morally bankrupt institution it truly is.
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papalovesmambo
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pbs democratic presidential debate#14
Posted: 12/16/07 at 3:58pm
so why was biden there?
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
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JoeKv99
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pbs democratic presidential debate#15
Posted: 12/16/07 at 4:00pm
I'd say Biden is more "Kooky" than outright Nuts. Kucinich/Biden would be the most mentally unstable ticket since Perot/Stockwell, however.
No good can possibly come from using this vast wasteland of error and deliberate deceit. You should get off of it and warn others away. You should make sure your children and grandchildren know what a corrupt and morally bankrupt institution it truly is.
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papalovesmambo
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pbs democratic presidential debate#16
Posted: 12/16/07 at 4:08pm
i'd respectfully ask that you remove admiral stockwell's name from that post. whatever else he was, he was an american hero despite his portrayal in the press.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
touchmeinthemorning
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pbs democratic presidential debate#17
Posted: 12/16/07 at 4:21pm
Joe, what is it about Kucinich that is unelectable? Also, what is it about him that makes him "nuts"?
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown