Abortion tangent from the Juno thread....

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Abortion tangent from the Juno thread....#1
Posted: 12/3/07 at 2:09pm
I'm still stuck on the "there is no such thing as a person who has an abortion and has no problem with it".

Early pregnancy is so physically discreet, that the significance, in my opinion, attached to is determined by one's circumstances. Have born and raised children, the 12 week pregnancy (and yes I miscarried once around that time) dashed the anticipation of a child that might have come to be, but a three month fetus is merely a potential human being. One can imbue it with a name, and a personality, and love...but physically, it's still a clump of proliferating cells. With amazing potential, but they "ain't no baby".

I know that miscarriages and abortions are traumatic under many circumstances. I also know that frequently, they are a big fat relief.

Do I think people should use abortion as birth control? No. Do I favor non-medically necessary late term abortions? Nope. (But I also believe that the ones that ARE done ARE medically necessary.
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Thanks for starting this thread, iflit. I wanted to say something about it, but I didn't want to derail that thread.

I think the person who stated "that there was no such thing as a person who has an abortion and has no problem with it" may have been projecting his own feelings into the matter. I think there are plenty of women - probably even some on this board - who have had abortions with which they didn't have a problem. I'm not saying it must have been easy or that there were no tough decisions involved but, as iflit states, circumstances often dictate feelings in these situations.
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"there is no such thing as a person who has an abortion and has no problem with it".

To make this comment is absurd, unless the person making it has interviewed every single person who has had an abortion in the history of all abortions, and assuming they all told the truth.
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Updated On: 12/3/07 at 02:26 PM
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There are women I'm friends who with have had abortions and had a bit of emotional damage from it. There are others who viewed it entirely differently and had no regret or remorse about the procedure.

It's a different experience for every woman and the idea that every human being reacts the same...or perhaps just experiences different levels of the same trauma...seems silly.

I know several people who were/are pregnant that wanted to become pregnant only to have very ambivalent, if not downright hostile, feelings regarding their pregnancy. I can imagine the wide array of thoughts one has when they are not trying to get pregnant.
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Updated On: 12/3/07 at 02:29 PM
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The abortion comment was in response to something I wrote. I was commenting how recent motion pictures feature women who all unequivocally decide to have the baby when they find out they are pregnant. I just find it bizarre that, even in an R-rated film like KNOCKED UP, this option isn't even really an option for these women. They couldn't even say the word "abortion" in KNOCKED UP! I think its referred to as "the A-word" or some such nonsense.
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In response to the first poster on this thread, if the fetus "ain't no baby" at three months--when exactly does he or she become a baby? Isn't it totally arbitrary?

Babies start to feel pain at 8 weeks. Almost all abortions don't happen until at least 6 weeks--so there is a two week window of time to ensure the baby will not feel pain.

Oh, but that doesn't matter....
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Because the procedure is still taboo and stigmatized, women within the debate tend to become non-existant (see the orignal quote which decided to go with "person" instead of "woman,") or infantialized.

Anti-abortion efforts my seem as though they are acting in the hypothetical child's interests, but really that's juust one faction of a system desinged to work at systematically retaining control over women and their bodies.

One of the things I find most interesting about the abortion debate is that virtually no one on the anti-abortion side wants to discuss what the penalties would be for the woman who has an abortion should it become illegal. The focus is always on the doctors, as though the women were just poor little sheep at the mercy of these (male) doctors.

If the anti-abortion movement in this country really cared about the "children," they'd focus less on disrupting clinics and more on what to do with the unwanted children we already have. They'd also focus on fighting for broader access to and more education on birth control.







Updated On: 12/3/07 at 02:47 PM
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Babies start to feel pain at 8 weeks

Speaking of arbitrary...
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Babies start to feel pain at 8 weeks

Calvin, you beat me to it. Unless one can cite a peer-reviewed scientific source for that statement, one shouldn't be making it.
Updated On: 12/3/07 at 02:56 PM
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They start prayin' at ten weeks!
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Clearly, he was "poked" at 8 weeks, and said OUCH!
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Updated On: 12/3/07 at 03:19 PM
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Jane, I am in awe of your courage to post not only such personal information, but to be so truthful about your feelings. There are not too many people who would ever admit to sharing those feelings, but I would bet they are not that uncommon.

I have so much respect for your honesty.
PEACE.
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Well, thanks Sueleen, but I honestly don't see what's so personal about having an abortion. I'm not ashamed nor embarrassed. If this is a shocking revelation to put here on the board, I'm going to delete my posts.

I take that back- I do see what's personal about it but I have no problem saying it. Big deal.
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Updated On: 12/3/07 at 03:34 PM
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"Babies start to feel pain at 8 weeks."

Someone's been spending a bit too much time on abortionismurder.com

In reality, we don't know for sure exactly when a fetus begins to experience pain. The human brain is so complex. We can study when the sensory portions of the brain responsible for pain sensation begin to develop, and when it begins transmitting brain signals and create a fairly educated theory based on that.

A study published in the August 24, 2005 issue of JAMA states that a fetus cannot begin to feel pain until the 28th week (7th month) which is into the third trimester and a time in which abortions are illegal in most states.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/8/947

Even the studies that refute this place fetal pain at 20 weeks.
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Jane, I did not mean so much the revelation that you had had an abortion, but your description of the process and your feelings regarding it.
PEACE.
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Yes, I know Sueleen, and I appreciate your post to me. But to me the whole thing wasn't a big deal.

Anyway, I deleted the posts for those who may be shocked at honesty.
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In college I spent a few years interning at Planned Parenthood and worked in the post-abortion recovery room.

In my experience, the women who were most traumatized by the decision and process were the ones who felt most stigmatized. The women who had family members or friends who were unsupportive of their decision, or had grown up in communities (usually religious) that are vocal opponents of abortion rights faced the most emotional struggles after the procedure. Most of the women I worked with (and there were several hundred over the years) seemed pretty comfortable with the experience, and many even expressed feelings of extreme relief.
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I just want to know what you bought when you went shopping after. re: Abortion tangent from the Juno thread....
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Probably a cute little teddy, a carton of Pal-mals and a half gallon of Gilbys Gin...
PEACE.
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LOL, who remembers? I think it was around 30 years ago.

Boy I wish I could post some joke right now, but I won't.
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please do jane.

some of us will love you even more
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the posting that inspired this thread meant to be ironic?
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"I just want to know what you bought when you went shopping after."

Condoms?

Jane, I wish you'd repost what you wrote...i thought it was great!
"Carson has combined his passion for helping children with his love for one of Cincinnati's favorite past times - cornhole - to create a unique and exciting event perfect for a corporate outing, entertaining clients or family fun."

"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS

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"Condoms?"

HAHAHAHAHAHA very good, doodle.

Nah, the pm's must be flying as it is. I know I've been sending them!
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