are "sung through" musicals dead?- Page 2

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 6:49pm

Only the bad ones are dead (save for PHANTOM OF THE OPERA).
Luckily shows like CAROLINE OR CHANGE and RAGTIME have been having a solid life after Broadway.

Posted: 6/14/07 at 7:08pm

"In that case, Sweeney Todd used this "gimmick", seeing as how it's almost completely sung through. "

Sweeney actually has a surprising amount of dialogue--but you forget about that because there's so much underscore (and is indeed a lot of music)

However so have some ALWebber's--I mean Whistle Down the Wind is hardly sung through--and I know Sunset changes a lot (going back to that huge Sunset changes thread) but the original London production had a lot of dialogue particularly for ALW.

I like sung thru musicals and I like "traditional" book/song/book ones (and I like musicals that kinda mix the two--think a LOT of LaChiusa's works, or Sondheim's Passion which almost feels sung thru even though it has at least 30 mins of dialogue). Obviously if it's good or not is dependant on the work itself.

It is undeniable that they were seen as a European/80s trend (that went hand in hand with other aspects of megamusicals--broader and grander stoies, serious/epic themes, often pop music done in a neo classical way etc). But of course, as Caroline or Change shows, or something liek Dessa Rose they don't have to be huge productions (and we've had examples of them before--Most Happy Fella comes pretty close).

Thru sung musicals probably work better for such epic/big themes than traditionally styled shows because for whatever reason it is sillier to hear someone singing about having a cup of coffee (though opera fans have lived with this for years--but again operas tend to go for HUGE stories)--I adore Aspects of Love but that's undeniably a problem there (Black and Hart's lyrics not helping)

One weird trend though is how 3 movies of basically thru-sung musicals recently have all added different degrees of dialogue to make them more traditional (Phantom, Rent and Dreamgirls).

However for some reason I never think of Ragtime as sung thru and wouldn't put it here--yeah it has a LOT of music but the music flows out of dialogue in a traditional way--they dont' sing dialogue IMHO


Updated On: 6/14/07 at 07:08 PM

[istillbelieve24601]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 8:12pm

I think it's very interesting how adding dialogue in movie musicals made them worse. It makes one think... is it possible shows like Les Mis can be done with dialogue in between? We'd all like to see a movie of Les Mis, but undeniably they would replace many of the dialogue songs with spoken dialogue.

I like most musicals besides heavy dance musicals, so I equally like sung-through and traditional book/score/book ones. I don't think the art form is dead. Obviously, the 1980s mega-musical lavish, dramatic sung-through style is long dead. But sung-through musicals are definitely not dead.

How do you guys feels about dialogue songs? I definitely need to be in the mood to listen to them, but I think some of them have brilliant melodies, such as "Please" in Miss Saigon and all of the court testimonies in "Parade." At the same time, though I adore Les Mis with all my heart, I wish it had spoken dialogue instead of all the dialogue songs.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 8:48pm

I am soooo sick of people thinking that no spoken dialogue = opera. A LOT of operas have spoken dialogue. Carmen, Lakme, The Magic Flute, La fille du regiment...

Updated On: 6/14/07 at 08:48 PM

[me2]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:07pm

I don't think critics give sung-trhough musicals a chance because they don't want a return. Unless a show can build strong word of mouth right away or has an indestructable topic (i.e. WICKED), it's going to fail without good reviews. JANE EYRE was not sung-through, for example, but critics called it pop opera and killed it.

Audiences love LES MIZ and PHANTOM and MISS SAIGON. And everyone I knew who saw JANE EYRE or has seen a production of it loved it. In the reviews I read of the show, you could just tell critics couldn't get past the genre.

By the way, how was WOMAN IN WHITE? I thought it looked good, and again, you never can tell what the bias is of those reviewers to tell what the other non-paid theatre-goers are thinking.

Plus, if a show doesn't have ample comedy, the critics will kill it. So, I'm sure they're not gone, but I don't think they will really make a significant comeback.
Broadway Blog: The Second Golden Age

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:19pm

Critics don't all get together to plot against sung-through musicals like THE PIRATE QUEEN, THE WOMAN IN WHITE, SUNSET BOULEVARD, MARTIN GUERRE, et al. They do get past the genre, again, CAROLINE OR CHANGE got a more or less positive review on the New York Times though of course that show is in entire league of its own in terms of its brilliance.
Also, you have to keep in mind that THE WOMAN IN WHITE failed in London as well though it was much less successful in New York. Most people that I know who got to see THE WOMAN IN WHITE thought it was Andrew Lloyd Webber-lite or more like a compilation of Webber's trunk songs. I myself can't get through the recording save for one song.
The critics also don't really have that much influence on a show's fate. WICKED became an unqualified hit without any major stars from the get-go even if it got a mixed-to-negative review on the Times. People loved it, they told other people, other people went to see it and loved it too, etc. Clearly this wasn't the case with THE PIRATE QUEEN or THE WOMAN IN WHITE or any of those other shows.

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:24pm

Are we trying to say that Nowadays Sung through Musicals are going out, and that they were more widely accepted in the 70s and 80s? I don't think it's as easy as that.

One word, folks.

CHESS.

[me2]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 9:28pm

Oh, not at all. And again, I never WOMAN IN WHITE, so I'm just speculating on that.

I disagree about the power of reviewers. Yes, there are significant shows that have survived bad reviews from the TIMES, but most don't. Wouldn't you agree?

I think of examples I've read in books by the likes of Barry Singer, Ethan Mordden, and Steve Suskin. I honestly don't think any of them would say a whole lot positive about a great sung-through musical. They just don't seem to like them in concept.
Broadway Blog: The Second Golden Age

[SweeneyPhanatic]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 10:46pm

"One word, folks.

CHESS."

Two words. You forgot CARRIE.

[ThankstoPhantom]

Posted: 6/14/07 at 10:56pm

THE WOMAN IN WHITE is a show people either love or hate...hardly anyone is in between. I love it, and am proud of that.

[little_sally]

Posted: 6/15/07 at 12:44am

I thought The Woman in White was, as a whole, a bore. However, the more I listen to the cast recording, the more I like it. Still, I feel like there was way too much story and no reason to really sing about it.

Posted: 6/17/07 at 9:51pm

I'm torn on WIW--I think it's a bit underated--at least from the CD. Even ALW's detractors I think, if being honest, would have to admit that he's trying somethign different for him with it--maybe something a bit more akin to how true operas are written? Not sure but it's not just him throwing in some tunes and repeating them over and over. That said--I'm not sure it works... I'm an ALW fan, sometimes I hate to admit, and it's not exactly a score I play a lot...

E

[soapguy17]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:22pm

I was raised to hate ALW with a flaming passion that burns in the pits of my soul. But, Woman In White wasn't that bad.

Linnie, Chess was just an all around musical. On paper the idea is, a little strange. Add the whole sung-through thing and it didn't stand much of a chance, but somehow it just managed to work. I love it.

Posted: 6/18/07 at 5:17am

Also it should be pointed out that Chess wasn't sung thru in its Broadway revision--Trevor Nunn hired the poltiical playwright... Richard Nash i wanna say (?) to do the book against Tim Rice's wishes. I think only Bennett coulda made it really work on stage but I do think the thru sung aspect helps with how stylized the original version was

E

[donei13]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 1:14am

Calling a Les Miz a rock opera is terrible. Les Miz isn't a rock opera at all. Jesus Christ Superstar and The Who's Tommy, which are both sung-though can be called rock opera because they have rock-type music in it. But an opera is more...well the singers sing words like, just using a word off the top of my head- let it go. A musical could make it 'Leeet it Gooooo!' or even 'Let it Goooooo!' but in an opera it would be more like this- 'Leeeeeeeeettttttttttt iiiiitttttttt Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" Les Mis isn't like that.

[Wynbish]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 1:42am

Da fuq is this?

Updated On: 4/10/14 at 01:42 AM

[haterobics]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 1:57am

Everything is dead, until the next person does it again.

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 1:59am

Wow how to bring back a long dead one

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 3:13am

Oy.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 5:35am

"A musical could make it 'Leeet it Gooooo!' or even 'Let it Goooooo!' but in an opera it would be more like this- 'Leeeeeeeeettttttttttt iiiiitttttttt Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" Les Mis isn't like that"

Briiiiiiiing hiiiiiiiiiim hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooome

OK, then.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 10:27am

Ha! I was gonna point out something like Bare (the original version) as an example and then I saw the date of the first post.

[ARTc3]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 11:08am

HERE LIES LOVE is sung through and will be performing again in 4 days.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 11:15am

Hey, donei13:

You just joined today and figured out how to find a thread from 6 years ago?

Did you have a screen name before "donei13"?

[Wynbish]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 11:21am

And please don't try a "I've been lurking for 6 years".

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/10/14 at 11:57am

My fave new phrase: "rock-type music".