David Alan Grier as Pseudolus in Forum?- Page 2

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 1:35pm

The only casting requirement for the role of Pseudolous is that it be played by a "star clown" regardless of physical appearance. The creative team originally wanted to cast Phil Silvers in the part (he turned it down, though he did play it later in a 70s revival of the show) and then Milton Berle, who also turned it down. Neither Silvers nor Berle were stocky types at all, but were seen as ideal because they were two of the most popular and greatest comedians of that era. Only after several other candidates passed did they go with the stocky (and brilliant) Zero Mostel.

[Danielm]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 1:51pm

Actually, making judgements based on faulty or sketchy logic and information is extremely common on this board. People are always listening to the cast recording, watching an old kinescope on YouTube, or just stating opinions that flaked off the top of their heads and acting as though this somehow gives their conclusions validity. That's one of the great things about the internet. You can make judgements based on complete ignorance but still get them out into the public.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 4:45pm

That's right, Daniel: people go to all the bother of actually watching this stuff and listening to this stuff and then making a judgment call. How dare they. Why, heavens, it would be so much better if they simply ignored all this "stuff" and just said something for the sheer hell of it, because, after all, it's what's *supposed* to be said, right?

Insofar as Grier, I wish I'd seen him in the role. Yes, the part suggests a Mostel type, but I imagine that's from familiarity more than anything else. I could never quite get my head around the idea of Whoopi in the role (I mean, how did they handle the bits involving Pseudolus and Gymnasia?), but it would have been interesting to see. I was hoping they would have broadcast it on PBS (There was talk at the time of doing so); it's a shame that never panned out.

[singtopher]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 4:52pm

NathanLaneStalker asked how he was in the role. He said he had concern because Greer didn't jive with his personal vison of Pseudolus. Thats how I interpreted what he wrote in the initial post. A perfectly valid question.

[Bialyhoos22]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 5:39pm

Surprisingly, I remember reading on Playbill.com that there weren't that many changes done to the libretto to accomodate Whoopi's casting. Zaks has said that The House of Marcus Lycus actually worked equally well with Whoopi.

I was always curious though of the national tour with Rip Taylor. I've seen photos here and there, but I haven't heard much otherwise. Did anyone see it?

[Danielm]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 6:00pm

Yes seanmartin, you make barely informed conclusions about a legendary Broadway performer based on old kinescopes and expect to be taken seriously. You are exactly who I am referring to.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 6:19pm

Jerry Zaks made a cameo appearance during Whoopi's last performance.

[HollidayForever]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 6:19pm

A little off topic maybe.....but did anyone see Grier in the LA mounting of the Wiz??????????

[LI Larry]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 6:22pm

I saw him in Forum. I thought he was good. I saw Nathan Lane also and then saw it again when David Alan Grier did it. The part really is just an extension of their own humor. So if you don't like the person playing pseudolus in other things or if the person irritates you, then you won't like him in Forum. I thought they were both good.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 6:56pm

>> Yes seanmartin, you make barely informed conclusions about a legendary Broadway performer based on old kinescopes and expect to be taken seriously. You are exactly who I am referring to

Oooo, quel surprise, as the Montrealers would say. Youre easily dismissed, so run along while the adults talk, okay? There's probably an episode of Barney in the VCR, but ask your mommy to turn it on for you.

Now...

My question about Whoopi and Gymnasia comes from the lines in the dialogue about Pseudolus wanting specifically to buy Gymnasia and then getting her at the end of the play. Remember, the whole point of the House of Marcus Lycus number is ML "advertising" his wares because Pseudolus wants to purchase an "extravagance" for himself. How did they handle this with Whoopi? Or did they drop the Pseudolus/Gymnasia bits altogether?

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 7:04pm

I can see Grier in it - definitely

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 8:02pm

I saw the production late in previews and then again early in Grier's run. It was mostly an uninspired production both times, but it was better the second time.

I think I slightly preferred Grier to Lane, though neither was a great Pseudolus. Grier did have the advantage of getting to work off of the replacements in the cast, who were better than the originals had been when I saw them late in previews.

In particular, Ross Lehmann was a vastly better Hysterium than Mark Linn-Baker had been and Gina Ferrall was a distinctly better Domina than Mary Testa had been. They were both wonderful, inspired even, and they deserved to be in a better production of the show.

Btw, as MargoChanning said, the role wasn't conceived for a stocky actor, but for Phil Silvers. In addition, even after Mostel, the creators did not seem to think that a stocky actor was necessary. London's first Pseudolus was Frankie Howerd, who was not stocky, and the final Broadway Pseudolus in the original production was Dick Shawn.
Updated On: 1/11/07 at 08:02 PM

[Danielm]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 8:12pm

Yes Sean Martin. You are an adult. Everything you write just stinks of maturity.

I should let you know--I wasn't referring to you alone. In the past few days on this site I've read similarly uninformed opinions by many people--they say Jennifer Hudson is better than Jennifer Holliday though they never saw Holliday in the show. They say Ethel Merman, Mary Martin, and any number of other Broadway greats were overrated though they could not possible have seen them live--certainly not at their peak. This is off topic for this thread so I'm going to let it go from here. You may just continue on and judge performers as overrated whom you never actually saw.

[Calvin]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 8:49pm

When Whoopi did it, the "House of Marcus Lycus" was re-written so that Pseudolus had just bought her freedom with enough left over for a "lovely parting gift" for Hero, so all the courtesans' dances were directed at Hero rather than Pseudolus. The business with Gymnasia was more along the lines of: "What's wrong with you, boy? This girl's not good enough for you?"

If I remember right, with the "morals tomorrow" part at the end, she jumped into Miles' arms rather than Gymnasia's.

One of the funniest ad-libs was the bit during "Comedy Tonight" with the magic box at Lycus' house. When Erroneus popped out, she said "What do I want with some old white man? I have one of those at home." (she was with Frank Langella at the time)

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 9:25pm

>> I should let you know--I wasn't referring to you alone.

Translation: Blah blah blah.

Go troll somewhere else, huh, kid?

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 1/11/07 at 9:29pm

Ah, Pseudolus. One of my dream roles.

[Broadway Bob*]

Posted: 1/12/07 at 1:30am

You and me both Matt. You and me both!

[Calvin]

Posted: 1/12/07 at 11:01am

I had much more fun as Hysterium. A big plus: I didn't have to sing "Pretty Little Picture."

[HOUFlip04]

Posted: 1/12/07 at 12:36pm

I loved playing Hysterium as well. And if played well, can get more laughs than Pseudolus...

[JRybka]

Posted: 1/12/07 at 12:49pm

I got to see Nathan and Whoopi but missed David.... I think he would have been good. I really enjoyed Whoopi! I mean don't get me wrong Nathan was hysterical but when Whoopi did it-- it had this whole other thing going on. And I love her to begin with so it was very easy for me to laugh along with her sideway glances and her wisecracks.

[Bwaybaby109]

Posted: 1/12/07 at 7:14pm

I would have LOVED to see Whoopi and Nathan in this. Especially Whoopi! I always find it interesting when they cast someone who is non-traditional and they pull it off really well. And I'm sure Whoopi did with her brilliant comedic timing. I have actually seen a girl do this role...but she didn't pull it off at all. I think it would be so much (especially for me!) to play this role!

Updated On: 1/12/07 at 07:14 PM

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 1/12/07 at 8:13pm

WOW! haha. I've been without the internet since my last post.

And singtopher pretty much said what I was thinking.

Another one of Whoopi's ad libs that was hilarious: during Comedy Tonight when Pseudolus throws the baby off stage she said "I don't want no white baby!". haha.

And when Hero says no to Gymnasia she said "Boy are you crazy!? That's my cousin!".

I didn't know Rip Taylor did the tour. How was he?

[Adam Chris]

Posted: 1/12/07 at 8:47pm

I saw Rip Taylor in Forum about 8-9 years ago when the tour came to San Diego.

I didn't really know much about him before seeing the show except that he liked to dump confetti on people...and during Comedy Tonight, that's exactly what he did.

He was ok. He constantly laughing and giving the *wink, wink* to the audience. He would also talk to the orchestra conductor about the music tempo.

Interestingly, Pretty Little Picture was cut from the show when he was in it.

[Jon]

Posted: 1/12/07 at 9:01pm

"Pretty Little Picture" was cut from the Nathan Lane revival (even though it's on the cast album) and the Phil Silvers revival.

In Lan'e case, it was cut for time reasons. In Silvers' case, it was cut because Silvers couldn't learn the song correctly.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 1/13/07 at 3:46am

Actually, when the Phil Silvers revival started in Los Angeles, Silvers sang the song. Though he had some trouble with the higher notes (which is not unheard of with actors in the role), he did a pretty good job with it.

Zadan writes that it was cut "when Phil Silvers couldn't perform it," a rather ambiguous statement. But I can tell you that on at least one night of the Los Angeles run, Silvers performed it quite respectably.

Updated On: 1/13/07 at 03:46 AM