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Did anyone read the thread on ATC...- Page 2

Did anyone read the thread on ATC...

colleen_lee
#25re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 5:51pm

Telsey does frequently do open calls for non-Equity actors.

And, unfortunately, the situation in non-Equity houses across the country is not much better.


"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. " --Sueleen Gay
Updated On: 1/1/07 at 05:51 PM

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Type_A_Tiff
#26re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:02pm

Well, then maybe he should expand his talent pool to audition actors without Equity credit and/or an agent.

It's no different than the want ads I see with the gazillion requirements, and then the hiring company claims that there aren't enough "qualified" Americans who applied so the company is going to outsource the jobs to India and China.


Well I think then we're getting into a totally different topic than what we're addressing here. It's not so easy for a casting director to hold open calls - not only is it time-consuming, but there are many union regulations that make it more attractive for producers to hire unionized actors, and there are substantial fees placed on the production company and a non-union actor if that actor is hired. As for auditioning unrepresented talent, I'm sure there are a lot of qualified people out there without agents, but it's unrealistic to expect casting directors to do cattle calls or just audition every person who's ever sent them an unsolicited headshot & resume, you know? Especially when you consider what I mentioned above about strict union regs.


"It's not always about you!!!" (But if you think I'm referring to you anyway, then I probably am.)

"Good luck returning my ass!" - Wilhemina Slater

"This is my breakfast, lunch and f***ing dinner right here. I'm not even f***in' joking." - Colin Farrell
Updated On: 1/1/07 at 06:02 PM

Fenchurch
#27re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:08pm

You all can keep defending him and the remark, but it was racist, no matter how you slice it.


"Fenchurch is correct, as usual." -Keen on Kean
"Fenchurch is correct, as usual." - muscle23ftl

colleen_lee
#28re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:14pm

"Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective"

I fail to see how it is racist. Again, talent is not the adjective in the sentence but rather the noun.

Is the minority talent pool substantially smaller? Yes.

Thus, would trying to cast a show exclusively from this talent pool be more difficult? Yes.


"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. " --Sueleen Gay

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SDav 10495
#29re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:22pm

The comment is only racist in the sense that it is aimed at (or is about) a specific race. People say racism is everywhere, and they're right--because we acknowledge and talk about race all the time.

What the comment is not, I believe, is racially insensitive or offensive. I agree with those who say he was using "talent" as another term for "actors and actresses" and speaking about quantity rather than quality. Would a prominent casting director who has and does cast hundreds of minority actors really say that an entire race is lacking in talent in an interview with Playbill.com? Though I agree that his sentence may have been dubiously worded and can easily be interpreted any number of ways, there's nothing offensive in his actual words when you consider what he very likely meant to say.


"If there is going to be a restoration fee, there should also be a Renaissance fee, a Middle Ages fee and a Dark Ages fee. Someone must have men in the back room making up names, euphemisms for profit." (Emanuel Azenberg)

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Type_A_Tiff
#30re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:24pm

It wasn't racist. And I don't care either way about Bernard Telsey, so I have no hidden agenda or invested interest in whether he's villified here or not. But eventually calling people "racist" (Rosie, Telsey, etc.) will have the same unfortunate fate as people throwing the term "Nazi" around too liberally. To do so not only discredits whatever point is trying to be made, but also tends to trivialize the actions and words of a real racist or a real Nazi.


"It's not always about you!!!" (But if you think I'm referring to you anyway, then I probably am.)

"Good luck returning my ass!" - Wilhemina Slater

"This is my breakfast, lunch and f***ing dinner right here. I'm not even f***in' joking." - Colin Farrell

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CurtainPullDowner
#31re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:25pm

Well than he should have said "pool".
Playbill is read mostly by people not in the industry and the remark as written smacks of racism.
I'm sure he didn't mean it to, but it does.
Read tha actual statement as quoted.

Dover
#32re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:27pm

I think it was an incredibly bad way to word it, given how the words themselves can be interpreted several ways. But my guess is that he was speaking about the "business" and was talking in that context in terms that would be understood by whoever he was talking to, not considering who might be reading it in print and interpret it differently. "Talent" in this context means "talent pool." What he said is true, and not something he has control over.

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Type_A_Tiff
#33re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:28pm

So he should have been clearer, yes. But it just goes to show that the comment wasn't irrefutably racist, as some have said. Just that he should be more articulate and aware of the audience who would be reading the interview.


"It's not always about you!!!" (But if you think I'm referring to you anyway, then I probably am.)

"Good luck returning my ass!" - Wilhemina Slater

"This is my breakfast, lunch and f***ing dinner right here. I'm not even f***in' joking." - Colin Farrell

Fenchurch
#34re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:29pm

I have had this conversation again and again on board

RACISM CANNOT BE SUMMED UP IN A DICTIONARY DEFINITION

Doing so immediately shows how ignorant one is.

The minority talent pool is considerably smaller, but that only means that in order to do justice a casting director has to work harder.

And we're not talking about a handful of qualified minority performers

we're talking about HUNDREDS of excellent minority performers out of literally THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS that audition ever year.


"Fenchurch is correct, as usual." -Keen on Kean
"Fenchurch is correct, as usual." - muscle23ftl

colleen_lee
#35re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:32pm

"The minority talent pool is considerably smaller, but that only means that in order to do justice a casting director has to work harder."

Which is exactly what his quotation said!


"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. " --Sueleen Gay

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Jane2
#36re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:33pm

Not racist at all. Tiff and M. Bennett got it right. Talent is a term used in the industry for those who perform, as opposed to crew, production, etc.


<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES

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Michael Bennett
#37re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:35pm

And I think most of the people who actually read Playbill.com are theatre fans who understand the meaning of "talent pool."

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Type_A_Tiff
#38re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:36pm

A dictionary definition is necessary if we're debating semantics here; it doesn't make one ignorant, it gives credibility to one's argument, and in this case, shows that, like I said earlier, people throw the words "racist" and "racism" around like it's free candy. And I'm part of the visible minority group that's least represented in Hollywood and Broadway - Asian.


"It's not always about you!!!" (But if you think I'm referring to you anyway, then I probably am.)

"Good luck returning my ass!" - Wilhemina Slater

"This is my breakfast, lunch and f***ing dinner right here. I'm not even f***in' joking." - Colin Farrell

LostLeander
#39re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:41pm

When I first read it, I was shocked too, but I understand what he's saying.

He's just saying that there are proportionately less African American actors out there. The rest of the article explains that he finds it hard to ANY talent. Thus, it would be harder to find suitable African American talent.

Could it have been worded better? Sure, but he's a busy man, I'm sure.


Personally, I think I have too much bloom.

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myManCape
#40re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:46pm

I would have to say that the interviews on Playbill.com are read mostly by people familar with theatre terms and they would have a basic working knowledge of what different expressions mean. A "regular person" on playbill.com is likely checking out shows, looking for reviews or trying to order tickets. I can't imagine a person who stumbled upon playbill.com reading an interview with Bernard Telsey. Chances are they would have never heard of him. So in that sense there really was no need for him to simplify his answers to the questions for non-industry people.


"Have they come yet?"

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Al Dente
#41re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:48pm

That's just it, I'm sure he's not deliberately making a rascist statement, the "jaw dropping" is because someone should have realized how the sentence would *read*. While people on BWW and ATC get the "lingo", you can't expect laymen to. Bad editing at the least.
Updated On: 1/1/07 at 06:48 PM

Jon
#42re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 6:49pm

Folks, here's a fact: They recently held auditions in Chicago for THEN COLOR PURPLE - for the Chicago production and for Broadwa replacements. They held Equity auditions. They held non-equity auditions. They held open calls. They publicised it in the newspapers and on television. THEY FOUND NO ONE GOOD ENOUGH TO BE HIRED.

Yes, Chicago has some really good African-American musical theate performers, like Felicia Fiel...oops - she's already in the show!

Like Merle Dandri... oops - she left Chicago years ago and is on Broadway in TARZAN.

Like Chester Gre... - oops- he's in TARZAN too.

Like Darius and Aisha DeHa... oops - they are in New York too!

So, you see, there aren't t ton of African-American musical theatre performers just sitting around hoping to get into the chorus of a tour of THE COLOR PURPLE.

eatlasagna
#43re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 7:57pm

i do a lot of diversity training with students in college.. been doing it for 10 years... and personally.... some people think WAAAAY too much about it... i read the comment and immediately was "what's the big fuss".... yes racism exists out there... but this is just one of those examples where, and i know this may offend people, but it's an example of where people WANT racism to exist... how sad... numerous people have explained what it meant, but why do you WANT it to be racism... why??? it's NOT unless the guy flats out says in the next interview, "i'm racist and black people suck, sorry if you misinterpreted my previous statment and it was too hard to understand"

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SallyBrown
#44re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 8:03pm

Im not a racist, but you can take this comment that I make or leave it whatevs:

AFrican-Americans tend to have more talent. I think. Just saying.


"It's a great feeling of power to be naked in front of people. We're happy to watch actual incredible graphic violence and gore, but as soon as somebody's naked it seems like the public goes a bit bananas about the whole thing."

Fenchurch
#45re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 8:33pm

ok, im willing to admit that his use of the word "talent" was misleading but not necessarily racist.

However, we should look at why casting directors have so much trouble finding talented African American performers.

Maybe one of the reasons is that the theater community isn't very welcome to African Americans (outside of Black Theater and Black casts of white shows, etc)

And its obvious from boards like this one and especially ATC which both have theater professionals on them, that the theater community is woefully behind when it comes to racial equality.

Maybe that's something we need to sit down and think about.


"Fenchurch is correct, as usual." -Keen on Kean
"Fenchurch is correct, as usual." - muscle23ftl

colleen_lee
#46re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 8:38pm

I do agree that the fact that minorities in general aren't entering the field deserves discussion, though perhaps it should take place on a different thread as to not jack this one.


"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. " --Sueleen Gay

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wonderfulwizard11
#47re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 8:43pm

I agree with tiff and Michael Bennet in that the comment wasn't racist.


I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

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Type_A_Tiff
#48re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 10:30pm

Fenchurch, that is absolutely something we can agree on!


"It's not always about you!!!" (But if you think I'm referring to you anyway, then I probably am.)

"Good luck returning my ass!" - Wilhemina Slater

"This is my breakfast, lunch and f***ing dinner right here. I'm not even f***in' joking." - Colin Farrell

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evadiva
#49re: Did anyone read the thread on ATC...
Posted: 1/1/07 at 11:06pm


Mr. Telsey should have been more careful with semantics but RACIST? C'MON!

A local theatre group in my area is having a freaking HELL of a time trying to find black singer/actors and actresses to cast RAGTIME. They are just not coming to auditions! The theatre has posted notices at colleges, churches, local papers..... They have been BEGGING everyone to spread the word!

As you all know - in order to tell this story you need a talented DIVERSE cast! What can casting directors do if the type of actors/actresses they need just are not showing up?
If the numbers are low THAT IS A FACT. YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH THAT! And if the number to BEGIN with is low, then you have to expect that the amount of talent in that number is bound to be lower too.

He didn't mean to be racist. THAT is clear.

The word racist is an ugly term that is used to describe a horrible and unjust discrimination. It should NOT be thrown around casually to describe someone you are offended by. That is hasty, harsh, judgmental, irresponsible and dispicable!

There are many INDISPUTABLE, cruel acts of racism that exist on every corner. Focus on and expose them - not a casting director seeking black actors and actresses to cast in the amazing productions that exist on Broadway. I mean really.... Do you REALLY think he would want to offend or hurt a community of people he is trying to employ?

Watch how you throw that word around.