Actor Bashing

Posted: 4/27/05 at 9:52am

Just a question...

But how many of the people who post on this board and tear apart actors have any professional experience themselves? I love how we all sit back and make like professional critics picking apart vocal techniques and acting techniques when I would guess that the vast majority have a) no vocal training, (or THINK they have vocal training because they saw a teacher for a few months), or b) no acting training, (or THINK they do because the took A workshop). It just makes me laugh is all. Furthermore, how many of us are actually NOT highschool kids?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 9:54am

Well, I think you'll find a surprising number of people here are performers and, dare I say it, professionals. If not, they're professionals in other fields.
What's more, this subject has sort of been beaten into the ground. It's a website devoted to Broadway. It's very natural that people are going to come here and that certain performers will be alternately praised or criticized, regardless of the professional status of the poster or his/her age.

Posted: 4/27/05 at 10:00am

Everyone IS entitled to their opinions. I concur with that. However, do we need to be so nasty about it?

[Elphaba]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 10:12am

sounds like you've had a bitter experience amneris....or are pesonalizing something perhaps someone said about an actor you like?
With criticism I always consider the source. I take the valuable part (if any) and disregard the rest. If there is no valuable part.....I just ignore it
And as to the high schoolers in here......I say thank God they're here.......in my high schools days, long ago....no one was into Broadway (at least where I lived.) To see all these kids into it, is a very good sign.

Updated On: 4/27/05 at 10:12 AM

[TVBoy]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 10:38am

"Everyone's a critic..." Since this is a public message board about a very public profession, you can expect people to offer their views or critiques about an actor or a show. There's nothing wrong with that. However, after being a member of this board for quite some time now, I think you learn to pick and choose what you read. Some do enjoy "bashing" others, but to me, that just shows their immaturity.

When I was younger my grandmother cut out a newspaper article and gave it to me. In the article it said the following, which I try to live by...

Those of high intelligence talk about issues.
Those of average intelligence talk about things.
Those of little to no intelligence talk about others.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 10:53am

If you went to, say, a board about football or baseball, etc., I'm sure you would see the exact same thing.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:03am

and being on a college football board on AOL, I can say that Rath is ENTIRELY correct.

and TVBoy.....your Grandmother is a wise woman!

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:09am

Oh yeah Amneris! Absolutely dead on! You HAVE to have extensive acting training to recognize a decent performance! And, of course, you have to be a chef to know that the soup is too salty. And you have to have gone to med school to know that you've caught a cold.
If you don't want to see people critique actors, you've come to the wrong place. All you need to offer an opinion on a show is to have seen it. Obviously, there are some opinions I value more than others, but not because the opine-rs have had extensive vocal training, but because I have found validity to their opinions before.

And Nasty? I've seen a few posters that seem to delight in ripping on a performer, but they are the exception and not the rule, I think.

[eslgr8]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:10am

People who say that only a singer can judge other singers, only a writer can judge other writers, etc. seem to say this only when they disagree with the opinion being expressed, that is to say when the "critic" pans a performance. I don't sing well, but I can certainly tell who has a good voice, or at least a voice that pleases me. Someone who can't dance but who has observed countless ballets can distiguish between someone with talent and someone without. One doesn't need to be a basketball star to know who the good players are. Being a good critic depends on many factors, but being skilled in the field one is reviewing would be rather low on the list, I think.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:11am

But Joe, as it happens, I have had extensive vocal training, so it's a win/win for you!

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:12am

Everyone seems to be a critic - myself included, and so many of these board members are professional performers - myself included. I try not to be too harsh in my criticisms - and yet there are those people in the industry who I just don't "get" - like Wildhorn...but I've promised myself to try and be more open minded, difficult as that may be for an old dog like me!LOL...

[LouW95]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:16am

If you go through the threads, you will clearly find examples of the following point --The people who post the most critical reviews of shows, actors, fellow posters, etc. are the same folks who cannot handle criticism. There's nothing wrong with having a strong opinion but one who does should be able to tolerate a differing point of view without name calling or personal attacks.The purpose of this site is to promote Bway!!

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:16am

Right. We are criticizing public performances - performances put on for the public - we are the public.

Updated On: 4/27/05 at 11:16 AM

[Craig]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:34am

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I will.

There is a clear difference between criticism and bashing. There's a difference between spewing vitriol or trying to be clever and critiquing a show, performer, etc and explaining why one didn't like this/that/other. I can't pretend to know the intentions of the original poster, but I always appreciate reading what someone has to say on this board as long as it's "productive" and not just a vendetta against (as I said) a show, performer, etc.

Also it's interesting to see the same posters posting in different threads or starting new ones as if their opinion wasn't already known. And surprise-surprise, it's interesting when you either meet the person in public or find out that there is a specific reason for their "bias". I won't go into details as I am sure we can all figure out why those biases may exist.

There's nothing wrong with debate or differing opinions. On a personal note I will mention that I find it amusing (and not really in a good way) the "extreme" language thrown around in posts. (cue preachy music) I personally don't think you can HATE a performer unless you know them and have had personal difficulties with them. Hate is a word that is overused so much here, there, etc that it almost is the default word when it really shouldn't be. You can dislike a performance, not be fond of a performer or show or incident. But actual HATE? I know.. I know. I'm getting caught up in semantics but I think you all understand my point. You ALWAYS have a choice on how you say or write things. And the message board here has two very important features known as "edit message" and "preview" so that you can think before you post, or edit afterwards.

/off soapbox

[Marc Shaiman]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:44am

**wipes tear away, applauds Craig vociferously**

Updated On: 4/27/05 at 11:44 AM

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:44am

I'm not so sure that if you were to go to a baseball or football message board that you'd see people saying 'I don't think Derek Jeter's so good, why when I played shortstop for my local church league, I was a much better player than he was and I fielded many of the same balls he fields much better than he did and I can hit a curve more easily than he can too.'

Sure, you'll get ludicrously passionate opinions about anything, but what I think makes these sort of boards, uh, unique is the amount of rank amateurs who genuinely believe they're so much more talented than the pros that have more experience/talent/dedication than they do and who don't respect the *level* that the professionals work at from top to bottom.

I think people flaunting training without experience are sort of comical, really. I've always viewed 'training' as being like sex: anyone can get some as long as they're willing to pay for it.

Just my two cents.

Updated On: 4/27/05 at 11:44 AM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:45am

Ree got your tongue, Marc?

edit: There you are!

Updated On: 4/27/05 at 11:45 AM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:45am

well said Craig.

Posted: 4/27/05 at 12:01pm

John Popa, might I suggest that if you won't find such passionate opinions on a sports board, it's because the people who hold such views are at the game screaming "SOSA YOU SUCK" at the top of their lungs?

I'd say I hate sports, but having read Craig's wise words, I'll edit myself to say that I've never met a sport I can tolerate. The rare occasion I've attened a professional sporting event, I've been stunned to see that the critics feel it's their prerogative, nay their obligation, to voice their displeasure.

I guess I'd prefer the occasional vitriolic post from a disgruntled theatregoer than have to put up with a Gypsy Matinee crowd where audience members bellow "Peters, my uncle Dominic would make a more believable Madame Rose than you!"

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 12:07pm

Joe, you were at GYPSY the same night I was?!?!

[gavrochegirl]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 12:08pm

Um...I'm an elementary school kid...I can't until junior high school..

EDIT: Bravo, Craig! That made my morning!

Updated On: 4/27/05 at 12:08 PM

[etoile]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 12:18pm

"And as to the high schoolers in here......I say thank God they're here.......in my high schools days, long ago....no one was into Broadway (at least where I lived.) To see all these kids into it, is a very good sign."

Well I believe that's true of many of us. So what did I do for an outlet? Rather than blather on with piffle somewhere, anywhere, I picked up a book and read a play. Perhaps that is one thing that is missing. Semantics and word choice are important.

And I suspect Dominic's nephew found his way here and has been posting.

Updated On: 4/27/05 at 12:18 PM

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 12:29pm

I'm not against discourse at the level of 'Sosa, YOU SUCK' because it's not disguising itself and it isn't nearly as pompous as what goes on here, where 'Sosa, YOU SUCK' is considered by many to be literate discourse and educated criticism. It isn't. And if we're willing to admit we're just folks in the bleachers spouting off, then that's ok. But if we're going to pretend to know what we're talking about and pretend to respect the artform and the performers, as most people here do, then at some point people could at least oblige by having something to say other than 'Sosa, YOU SUCK' or 'my GRANDMOTHER could play Maria Von Trapp better than that and she's been dead fifteen years.'

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 12:47pm

Way to go Craig! I may find some people in this industry more difficult or challanging to work with but HATE never enters into the word bank. Some of the most difficult people are often some of the most talented. This is no different in any other workplace.
Contstructive criticism about an actor's performance or a show is one thing and anyone regardless of their experience or knowledge about this field is entitled to voice an opinion.
It's ok to say " I think this or that as long as you qualify it with a logical reason". Remember only children say "I hate you/this... just because".

The entertainment world is like a public amusment park for the majority of people, who will voice what they like/dislike. It's only a business for a handful and those involved should know how to anticipate the public. Just my view.

[etoile]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 12:48pm

But I read in a thread here that someone actually has a box of awards and certificates, available for viewing, and can even tell the difference between what should be a Broadway or community theatre performance.