I normally wouldn't make a Wicked thread but...was the ending changed? SPOILERS
I normally wouldn't make a Wicked thread but...was the ending changed? SPOILERS
#0I normally wouldn't make a Wicked thread but...was the ending changed? SPOILERS
Posted: 1/28/05 at 3:53pm
The thing that truly got me p.o.ed about Wicked was the ending. The rest of the show was good/okay, but that schmaltzy, tacked on ending that was tremendously corny, inexplicable, and creates an enormous continuity error for all of the Oz books after "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"...that I could not forgive. It was demeaning to the very character of Elphaba...she is supposed to be a tragic hero. Having her narrowly escape by a trap door that just *happened* to be under her when it was convenient is just plain stupid.
But the rest of the show seems to take itself seriously.
And there are no new set pieces or costumes introduced in the last scene; in fact, it seems very tacked on and sloppily put together.
And then I remembered that on the (way too long) Wicked segment of the PBS Broadway miniseries, Steven Schwartz said somthing to the effect of "Nearly up to the show's opening we were getting rid of and replacing scenes"
I bet some of these scenes probably would've helped in the character development department; characters like Nessa, Boq, and the Wizard lacked any kind of depth.
These scenes must have been taken out because preview audiences thought the show was too boring and slow.
Do you think maybe the ending of Wicked was changed because the little kids didn't like that Elphaba died at the end?
If anybody saw the show before it opened, please tell me, and about any additional scenes that didn't make the cut.
This could have been a great show.
Menzellover11
Understudy Joined: 1/16/05
#1re: I normally wouldn't make a Wicked thread but...was the ending changed? SPOILERS
Posted: 1/28/05 at 4:00pmno thats the way it was and wicked is amazing...w/ Idina Menzel
#2re: I normally wouldn't make a Wicked thread but...was the ending changed? SPOILERS
Posted: 1/28/05 at 4:01pmI LOVE Wicked, but I too was bothered by the musical's disregard for the world created by L. Frank Baum. I've read all the books and was troubled that the show and the books cannot be reconsiled. I would've preferred that Elphaba truly died at the end of the show instead of the happy ending. Additionally, it bothered me that Elphaba was responsible for "creating" the Scarecrow, Tin Man and Cowardly Lion. Anyone who knows Baum's first book knows how the Tin Man became what he is. It was far too convenient that the Wicked Witch was responsible for the creation of all 3 classic characters. Other than than, I love Wicked.
The truly beautiful should be lawfully restricted from wearing clothing; and the truly butt-ugly should be lawfully mandated from going naked.
Updated On: 1/28/05 at 04:01 PM
stagestar130
Stand-by Joined: 1/24/05
#3re: I normally wouldn't make a Wicked thread but...was the ending changed? SPOILERS
Posted: 1/28/05 at 4:02pmShoshana is amazing too!!! You have to hear this girl sing... she is unbelievable
#4baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 4:04pmI agree, the characters definately should have stayed as they were because the book (and Baum's books) say many times how these characters "came to be" and it has nothing to do with Elphaba; but I do think it was sort of clever how they tied the characters together.
#5baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 4:07pmThe entire show is clever, but what makes it clever is how the authors took known Oz history and manipulated it slightly, but kept it truthful to the original Baum spirit. Disregarding Baum's Oz history to suit the purposes of the storyline however was disappointing.
The truly beautiful should be lawfully restricted from wearing clothing; and the truly butt-ugly should be lawfully mandated from going naked.
Updated On: 1/28/05 at 04:07 PM
#6baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 4:09pmExactly; and it's a perfect show for all the illiterates who have only seen the movie. And that's a lotta people.
#7baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 4:11pmI agree. Aside from the use of silver shoes instead of ruby, those who have only seen the movie are satisfied with the way in which characters are developed.
The truly beautiful should be lawfully restricted from wearing clothing; and the truly butt-ugly should be lawfully mandated from going naked.
commasplice
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/29/04
#8baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 4:48pm
I think the ending in a way undermines the rest of the show. It's warm and fuzzy, but it just doesn't work.
What bothers me too is how the Glinda we see in the beginning and in the end act like different characters, though they're technically the same (post-melting, post-"For Good", yet the Glinda in the opening scene doesn't act like she's been changed).
Argh.
#9baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 5:03pm
1st: WICKED is based [loosely] on the novel by Gregory Maguire NOT the Baum books. You shouldn't try to compare, just take each as seperate entities.
2nd: Glinda acts diferently in the opening number because she is "putting on a front" for the Ozians. At the end, she is as she is because we, the audience, are looking into her psyche, now knowing her story.
3rd: It's just a musical, for Oz's sake!! Too much thought is being put into the who, what, when, where and why.
#11baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 5:53pmIn the book, Elphaba dies at the end.
A little swash, a bit of buckle - you'll love it more than bread.
#12baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 6:06pm
Well, sort of. I read it awhile ago and it was implied that she did in fact die, but left it open for the possibility that she didn't die. If you remember thestory that was repeated over and over in the book about that woman (details are vague) who lived behind a waterfall or something and they were all like "she hasn't come out yet". Well at the end of the book they retell the story of Elphaba and a little girl was like "did she ever come out?" and they were like "no, not yet."
I know that wasn't very coherent, but I haven't read it in awhile.
EDITED: just trying to clarify it a bit more.
Also, is anyone else surprised this IS NOT a Disney show? As much as I loved Aida, the end was only put in to have it be a "happy ending." This is the same way.
I want to write music. I want to sit down right now at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember and do the same thing every morning...for the rest of my life. - Jonathan Larson. Tick, Tick...BOOM!
Updated On: 1/28/05 at 06:06 PM
#13baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 6:47pmTGIF- AIDA had that ending because Radames and Aida vow to find each other, no matter how many lifetimes it takes. Reincarnation was HUGE in Egypt and the end of AIDA just brings another authentic Egyptian point into the show.
David walked into the valley
With a stone clutched in his hand
He was only a boy
But he knew someone must take a stand
There will always be a valley
Always mountains one must scale
There will always be perilous waters
Which someone must sail
-Into the Fire
Scarlet Pimpernel
timote316
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/20/04
#14baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 6:58pm
Aida's ending was Disney-fied, but, like jacob said, it had relevance to the show.
"Having her narrowly escape by a trap door that just *happened* to be under her when it was convenient is just plain stupid."
I can't remember if its in the musical or the book, but Fiyero tells Elphaba there are lots of secret passages at the castle, explaining the trapdoor's presense. Also, Chistery gives Elphaba a note before 'For Good', which is from Fiyero (don't know if you caught that or put together what happened, those I know who have seen it didnt). The note is telling Elphaba to fake her death.
The only discontinuity I can think of is the scarecrow's double life. Who's to say the scarecrow in the original books isn't living a lie?
#15baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 7:02pmTrue true. What was the ending in the opera?
I want to write music. I want to sit down right now at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember and do the same thing every morning...for the rest of my life. - Jonathan Larson. Tick, Tick...BOOM!
#16baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 7:41pm
3rd: It's just a musical, for Oz's sake!! Too much thought is being put into the who, what, when, where and why.
That's the most rediculous thing I've read today. "Too much thought" put into the very foundations of storytelling and drama? Maybe if we want a MAMMA MIA -- but a musical should have a coherent story that makes sense and survives a magnified look.
Reincarnation was HUGE in Egypt and the end of AIDA just brings another authentic Egyptian point into the show.
Actually, I don't believe the ancient Egyptians believed in reincarnation -- could be wrong, though. I do love AIDA's ending, though. It's an effective way to bookend the show.
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
#17baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 7:45pmBW- I could be wrong about Egypt, but I don't think I am.
David walked into the valley
With a stone clutched in his hand
He was only a boy
But he knew someone must take a stand
There will always be a valley
Always mountains one must scale
There will always be perilous waters
Which someone must sail
-Into the Fire
Scarlet Pimpernel
commasplice
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/29/04
#18baddadnpa:
Posted: 1/28/05 at 7:51pmI looked up a couple things on Google (I was curious, and it was going to bug me until I found out), and it says the Egyptians did believe in it.
Paul LW
Featured Actor Joined: 6/17/04
#19Ending...
Posted: 1/29/05 at 12:02am
I don't think the ending is a cop-out at all. I think it is even MORE dramatic that instead of the convienant "Well, Elphaba dies and some people are sad" they chose an even stronger point in "Elphaba lives and her best friend will never know and neither will anyone"
Doesn't that make sense? Kind of like how people don't believe in the death sentance, because they think a person would suffer more if they lived with the guilt of what they did?
Elphaba simply dying would be too easy. But the fact that she can never tell ANYONE she is alive and she has to start anew and she KNOWS her best friends thinks she is DEAD is much more dramatic.
We as the audience have the perspective to observe this. What pulls at our heart-strings is that we know she is alive, yet Glinda will never know.
I think that's brilliant!
#20Ending...
Posted: 1/29/05 at 12:07am
Personally, I think a better ending would be ending it the way they did in the book. It leaves you wondering what happend. I would have loved to have them work it into the show (i dont know how) someone asked if she will ever come back and have G(a)linda (whatever her name is) to say "Not yet"
Just have it someone tie into the book.
EDIT: I also love Aida's ending. It just seems Disney-esque. Atleast, as someone you pointed it is more "believable" because of their beliefs. Its not like there was trap door in the tomb and they tunneled their way up to the top.
I want to write music. I want to sit down right now at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember and do the same thing every morning...for the rest of my life. - Jonathan Larson. Tick, Tick...BOOM!
Updated On: 1/29/05 at 12:07 AM
#22Ancient Egyptians
Posted: 1/29/05 at 9:43am
My mum teaches Ancient Egyptian history, and all of her books say that they believed in an afterlife, not reincarnation.
The Pharoahs were all believed to be incarnactions of one god (the sun God, Ra, to be exact), which I suppose does have a reincarnation theme, but the main idea was of a judgement in the presence of Ra (judges of the underworld) to decide whether that person was fit to enter their equivalent of heaven or hell.
The dead would have to answer questions from 42 judges, make the"negative confession" admitting to no sin, and then their heart would be placed in a balance by Anubis and weighed against Mayet (the spirit of world order, usually represented by an ostrich feather). A soul deemed unworthy was devoured by Ammut, whilst a worthy soul was dressed in splendour like Osiris and presented to him by Horus.
The objects buried with Egyptian nobility were intended to travel with the dead into the afterlife. They believed in a physical, rather than spiritual, afterlife in the same way the Vikings did. The nobility would be welcomed by Amnet and led to an eternal life of eating, drinking, and a generally good time.
The idea of "rebirth" (symbolised in the "Opening of the Mouth part of the burial ceremony) was rebirth into the afterlife, not another life on Earth.
BeautifullyTragic
Chorus Member Joined: 1/27/05
Leading Actor Joined: 12/31/69
#25Ending...
Posted: 1/29/05 at 11:57am
The ending sucks. It's not dramatic like people have said. She melts. I don't even like the ending of Maguire's book. Dorothy throws the water on the witch while she bathes and she dies. That's it. There shouldn't be any other ending.
As for the tinman, scarecrow and lion ideas, I actually like that. It gives more of a connection to the characters.
