Arthur Laurents and Stephen Sondheim- Page 2

[jv92]

Posted: 10/21/21 at 12:54pm

Well, to be honest NO ONE wanted to be there in the first place! 
 

(I like DO I HEAR A WALTZ?, by the way.)

[nasty_khakis]

Posted: 10/21/21 at 1:52pm

Oh wow. I just started and it's startling to heat Arthur say "the problem with doing a musical is collaboration" which goes against Sondheim saying for decades how the BEST part of doing a musical is having the collaborator. It seems a big issue with Laurents in general is his "my ideas and my ideas only are the best" where Sondheim likes the other voices to say "are you sure? what if..."

I never worked with him but I did work front of house on the West Side Story revival and I'll say I witnessed some of what Jeremy Jordan has been forthcoming about and it was scary. Going from things like "nobody has played this like you, nobody has sung it better!" on a Tuesday and then on Thursday calling him such cruel names. Benanti said she quit Gypsy at City Center after a week because of these kinds of "breaking down the actor and ego" tactics and Patti had to tell him Benanti needed built up, not down and then they got along very well. 

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 10/21/21 at 2:25pm

joevitus said: "There would be no West Side Story without Laurents, so the idea that his was the weakest contribution is ludicrous. Famous anecdote repeated in various settings:

Man: Steven Sondheim saved West Side Story!

Stranger Overhearing: No, Arthur Laurents saved West Side Story.

Man: (turning to him imperiously) How do you know?

Stranger: Because I'm Steven Sondheim.

I'm not great fan of Laurents, but that is one solid book."

That's great that Steven thought Arthur saved West Side Story, but what did Stephen Sondheim think?

[A Director]

Posted: 10/21/21 at 2:33pm

joevitus said: "There would be no West Side Story without Laurents, so the idea that his was the weakest contribution is ludicrous. Famous anecdote repeated in various settings:

Man: Steven Sondheim saved West Side Story!

Stranger Overhearing: No, Arthur Laurents saved West Side Story.

Man: (turning to him imperiously) How do you know?

Stranger: Because I'm Steven Sondheim.

I'm not great fan of Laurents, but that is one solid book."

What it the source of this famous anecdote?

 

[joevitus]

Posted: 10/21/21 at 2:58pm

Different people have given it in different contexts. I read it in a bio of a gay kept man from the 50's who said it happened at a Fire Island party. JV92 here mentioned in the Putting it Together book by James Lapine thread that he heard it taking place at a cocktail party in Manhattan (and he also said he agrees with Sondheim). 

Updated On: 10/21/21 at 02:58 PM

[SpiritualGangster]

Posted: 10/21/21 at 3:40pm

joevitus said: "There would be no West Side Story without Laurents

 

Correction: There would be no West Side Story without Jerome Robbins

 

 

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/21/21 at 3:46pm

joevitus said:  "I read it in a bio of a gay kept man from the 50's who said it happened at a Fire Island party."

What's the name of the bio and the kept man? I wasn't aware that Sondheim had spent much (or any) time on Fire Island. Was the party in the Pines or Cherry Grove?

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 11:46am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said:
 "It’s when you’re miserable that he’s at his best. If you’re happy or, especially, successful—watch out."

This sounds like every other gay friend I have ever had.

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 12:13pm

CarlosAlberto said: "This sounds like every other gay friend I have ever had."

You need better friends. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 12:29pm

PalJoey said: "joevitus said:"I read it in a bio of a gay kept man from the 50's who said it happened at a Fire Island party."

What's the name of the bio and the kept man? I wasn't aware that Sondheim had spent much (or any) time on Fire Island. Was the party in the Pines or Cherry Grove?"

Zero idea, but the idea that a life-long gay New Yorker never went to Fire Island is pretty odd, and it isn't like closeted gay folks didn't go there, too. It would be especially odd since back when this anecdote takes place (late 50's), it wasn't yet a primarily gay enclave. Lots of show business people went there. Screaming heterosexuals Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner invented the interview with the 2000 Year Old Man skit at a party out on Fire Island. 

Wish I could give you the name of the book, but I can not relocate it. I flipped through it in the Gay Studies section at Borders, which tells you it wasn't recently. I've tried to search for the book over and over, with all sorts of search engine terms but cannot find it. 

As I pointed out, the story has also been located at a Manhattan cocktail party.

Updated On: 10/22/21 at 12:29 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 12:48pm

joevitus said, "the idea that a life-long gay New Yorker never went to Fire Island is pretty odd"

Actually, it's not.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 12:50pm

HogansHero said: "CarlosAlberto said: "This sounds like every other gay friend I have ever had."

You need better friends."

I assure you that the individuals in question are no longer relevant in my life.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 12:52pm

joevitus said: "but the idea that a life-long gay New Yorker never went to Fire Island is pretty odd, 

No it's not. I'm a life-long gay New Yorker. Born on the Lower East Side, then raised in the Bronx from the age of 10, I can assure you that I have never, ever in my lifetime been to Fire Island. 

I've also never been to The Eagle.

Go figure...

 

 

[joevitus]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 1:08pm

CarlosAlberto said: "joevitus said: "but the idea that a life-long gay New Yorker never went to Fire Island is pretty odd,

No it's not. I'm a life-long gay New Yorker. Born on the Lower East Side, then raised in the Bronx from the age of 10, I can assure you that I have never, ever in my lifetime been to Fire Island.

I've also never been to The Eagle.

Go figure...



"

Yeah, because assuming an elder gay man who lived his whole life in New York likely went to Fire Island at least once in his life is totally the same as assuming the same man went to a specific leather bar.

Updated On: 10/22/21 at 01:08 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 2:06pm

joevitus said: 

Yeah, because assuming an elder gay man who lived his whole life in New York likely went to Fire Island at least once in his life is totally the same as assuming the same man went to a specific leather bar."

Ohhh you're one of those crabby gays...

Sorry... 

Updated On: 10/22/21 at 02:06 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 2:06pm

Updated On: 10/22/21 at 02:06 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 2:07pm

Updated On: 10/22/21 at 02:07 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 10/22/21 at 2:24pm

CarlosAlberto said: "joevitus said:

Yeah, because assuming an elder gay man who lived his whole life in New York likely went to Fire Island at least once in his life is totally the same as assuming the same man went to a specific leather bar."

Ohhh you're one of those crabby gays...

Sorry..."

I see you're one of those defensive yet hypercritical people...

Sorry...

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 12/2/21 at 10:08am

It seems that Arthur's displeased digital poltergeist has possessed this thread. 

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 12/2/21 at 10:19am

Sounds like the relationship between Arthur and Steve was...ambivalent.

Kinda like about 95% of collaborations in the theatre.  

[jv92]

Posted: 12/2/21 at 10:59am

Borstalboy said: "Sounds like the relationship between Arthur and Steve was...ambivalent.

Kinda like about 95% of collaborations in the theatre."

Indeed. Even Kander and Ebb had their rough patches. 

 

[morosco]

Posted: 12/3/21 at 7:17pm

Laurents still owes me $54.00 for his NICK & NORA.

[dsleft]

Posted: 12/4/21 at 2:50pm

Oh yes, and there was the article from years ago where he claimed to have entirely fixed WICKED for Schwartz and Holtzman, but no one credits him. 

Funny, 15 years ago Craig Lucas told me he fixed Wicked for Schwartz and Holtzman. I guess there were a lot of doctors in the house.