How a Spider-Man musical became a theatrical disaster

[macbeth]

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20201125-how-a-spider-man-musical-became-a-theatrical-disaster

How time flies!

Do you think we'll ever see another superhero (or vampire?) musical in our lifetimes? 

[uncageg]

Read this over coffee this morning. Was hoping it might tell a little more than we already knew.

[Mr Roxy]

Part of it was on the shoulders of the female Michael Cimino.. Julie Taymor

[VotePeron]

This article is just a lame compilation of quotes from “The Song of Spider-Man” which is an excellent book, I highly recommend it. Very little actual insight in this article, pretty lazy writing.

[MRPURPLE2012]

I wonder what happened to that documentary Jacob Cohl made about all the behind the scenes issues regarding the show. I know it was mentioned in the original lawsuits surrounding the show but not much has been heard about it since

[joevitus]

It's interesting to me that the lousy plot was mandated by the argument "a musical must have a soprano among the lead characters." Why? It seems the antithesis of sound musical theater thinking think a show has to have anything. It's always a queston of what works for the specific show (no soprano leads in Pacific Overtures). And rock rarely uses a soprano voice, anyway. 

But there were so many problems, just pointing to one doesn't really explain the disaster this show was.

[Broadway Joe]

I was at the very first preview for this show, still happy I got to witness a show that was a beautiful train wreck lol

[Sutton Ross]

I was sitting next to a horrible broheim that was streaming a football game. The entire first act. His drunk wife did not notice. Then I couldn't stop thinking about all the injuries that had happened during the run of this incredibly pedestrian show and started worrying for everyone on stage. 

It really sucked all around but I greatly enjoyed the book that came out of it. 

[HogansHero]

joevitus said: "It's interesting to me that the lousy plot was mandated by the argument "a musical must have a soprano among the lead characters." Why? It seems the antithesis of sound musical theater thinking think a show has to have anything. It's always a queston of what works for the specific show (no soprano leads in Pacific Overtures). And rock rarely uses a soprano voice, anyway.

But there were so many problems, just pointing to one doesn't really explain the disaster this show was."

Proof, once again, that people like to make up rules that don't exist. (Although I am obliged to point out that "rock rarely uses soprano voice" is also off base.)

The show was a trainwreck, a massive confluence of problems that I would attribute, in the first instance, to bad producing. Or maybe more to the point, no producing. 

[Globefan]

I'd love a Wonder Woman musical 

[joevitus]

HogansHero said: "joevitus said: "It's interesting to me that the lousy plot was mandated by the argument "a musical must have a soprano among the lead characters." Why? It seems the antithesis of sound musical theater thinking think a show has to have anything. It's always a queston of what works for the specific show (no soprano leads in Pacific Overtures). And rock rarely uses a soprano voice, anyway.

But there were so many problems, just pointing to one doesn't really explain the disaster this show was."

Proof, once again, that people like to make up rules that don't exist. (Although I am obliged to point out that "rock rarely uses soprano voice" is also off base.)

The show was a trainwreck, a massive confluence of problems that I would attribute, in the first instance, to bad producing. Or maybe more to the point, no producing."

What percentage of rock bands (or rock albums, if you prefer) would you suggest employ a soprano voice?

[HogansHero]

joevitus said: "What percentage of rock bands (or rock albums, if you prefer) would you suggest employ a soprano voice?"

I have no clue how one could make that calculation, but it's a lot of rock albums (bands would be a misleading metric), and certainly not rare.  However, let me point out that the topic is not rock albums but rock musicals and few of those don't have soprano voices. 

 

[tmdonahue]

I agree with VotePeron, Song of Spider-Man is a very interesting book.  

Here's my two cents: The producers were not experienced Broadway producers and this often is a death-knell.  One of the lead producers, Michael Cohl had been very successful with rock arena shows, but that doesn't translate.  A similar problem arose years earlier with Via Galactica in 1972, the supposed follow-up to Hair and the first show at the Uris Theater (now the Gershwin), which has the distinction of being the first Broadway show to lose $1 million.  (Such a different economic environment back then!)

Julie Taymor is a great talent but she needs an active producer, as I'm sure the Disney folks were on The Lion King.

Add to that, as you read in Song of Spider-Man, that U2 and Bono were busy with their own careers and spent little attention to the musical, and you have an additional reason the show was so bad.

I saw it in a fairly early preview and the scenery and flying effects were extraordinary.  I left the theater humming the scenic effects. 

Similarly, I think the puppet in the musical of King Kong deserves a Tony.  Little else in the show did.

[Mr Roxy]

Big egos looking at an imagined pile of big bucks

[joevitus]

HogansHero said: "joevitus said: "What percentage of rock bands (or rock albums, if you prefer) would you suggest employ a soprano voice?"

I have no clue how one could make that calculation, but it's a lot of rock albums (bands would be a misleading metric), and certainly not rare. However, let me point out that the topic is not rock albums but rock musicals and few of those don't have soprano voices.

"

The majority of rock bands are all-male, and there are no male sopranos past puberty. That should go a long way to helping you answer the question. Percentage-wise, yeah, a soprano voice in the world of rock music fairly is rare.

[joevitus]

tmdonahue said: "I agree with VotePeron, Song of Spider-Manis a very interesting book.

Here's my two cents: The producers were not experienced Broadway producers and this often is a death-knell. One of the lead producers, Michael Cohl had been very successful with rock arena shows, but that doesn't translate. A similar problem arose years earlier with Via Galactica in 1972, the supposed follow-up to Hair and the first show at the Uris Theater (now the Gershwin), which has the distinction of being the first Broadway show to lose $1 million. (Such a different economic environment back then!)

Julie Taymor is a great talent but she needs an active producer, as I'm sure the Disney folks were on The Lion King.

Add to that, as you read inSong of Spider-Man, that U2 and Bono were busy with their own careers and spent little attention to the musical, and you have an additional reason the show was so bad.

I saw it in a fairly early preview and the scenery and flying effects were extraordinary. I left the theater humming the scenic effects.

Similarly, I think the puppet in the musical ofKing Kongdeserves a Tony. Little else in the show did."

It's worth pointing out, maybe in Tamer's defense, she didn't want to make a Broadway musical. She wanted to make an arena stadium event. The producers didn't want that, but they didn't want to jettison her, either, and so both she and they seemed to try to force a compromise on an approach that really had to be one thing or the other. 

[HogansHero]

joevitus said: "HogansHero said: "joevitus said: "What percentage of rock bands (or rock albums, if you prefer) would you suggest employ a soprano voice?"

I have no clue how one could make that calculation, but it's a lot of rock albums (bands would be a misleading metric), and certainly not rare. However, let me point out that the topic is not rock albums but rock musicals and few of those don't have soprano voices."

The majority ofrock bands are all-male, and there are no male sopranos past puberty. That should go a long way to helping you answer the question. Percentage-wise, yeah, a soprano voice in the world of rock music fairlyisrare."

Why are we still talking about this? This has nothing to do with anything here. But as long as we are here:

First, I resisted Bands and went with albums. Considering the heavy presence of female rock singers in rock music (including, notably, the famous ones fronting rock bands but I digress) you obviously are off base. Second, I attempted to steer you back into relevant terrain, rock musicals. Most of em have sopranos in them and in fact, if you look, you'll notice that many of them are based on the music of, guess who, female rock singers who, coincidentally, are sopranos. Perhaps you have not noticed that a majority of the Best Musical Tony noms reflect this. 

It's a very fine detour you've stuck us with here but better move along before you add to your embarrassment. 

[joevitus]

There is no "heavy" presence, so my comments can't be off base. There are, and almost from the start have been, amazing women in rock. Women in rock are still a minority. Even going with albums rather than bands (though as the vast majority of rock albums are recorded by bands, it pretty much comes down to the same thing), far more albums by men than women in this genre. 

Don't know if "we're still talking about this," but I am responding to your comments, which are simply incorrect. We can go back to Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark and leave off talking about this. I don't mind.

[HogansHero]

joevitus said: "There is no "heavy" presence, so my commentscan't be off base. There are, and almostfrom the start have been,amazing women in rock. Women in rock are still a minority. Even going with albums rather than bands (though as the vast majority of rockalbums are recorded by bands,it pretty much comes down to the same thing), far more albums by men than women in this genre.

Don't know if "we're still talking about this," but I am responding to your comments, which are simply incorrect. We can go back to Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark and leave off talking about this.Idon't mind."

I don't think they are nearly as much of a minority as you are painting them, but as I said that's neither here nor there. How about you tether your Spidey comment to the facts about sopranos in rock musicals? Or don't bother. 

[joevitus]

How about you chill out? One can acknowledge a situation without endorsing it. I'm not saying that rock should remain predominately male, just that, as it is predominately male, and therefore it is a sound that doesn't utilize a soprano voice too often, it makes even less sense in the case of a rock musical to emphasize an irrelevant character central just to satisfy the supposed need for a soprano voice in a musical. 

Clearly Arachnia is central to the problem of the show--a minor villain from the comics who was mostly used as just a campy throwaway destroyed the mood and potential dramatic arc of a storyline centered around the angsty outsider web-slinger. When you clear away the technical issues, the audience was still left with a lousy show because it focused on a meaningless villain that didn't mean anything to anyone rather than either one of the famous villains from the comics or Spider-Man himself.

[HogansHero]

sorry Joe, you are the one not chilling out, and you also have no idea what you are talking about and you obviously do not want to talk about sopranos in musicals because I am sure you finally dawned on you how silly what you said was. It's ok. Move on. There is no there here.

[SouthernCakes]

To me that’s up there with every main character needing in their own solo number or a show needing a title number (legally blonde - great melody weird lyrics or Sister Act.)

[joevitus]

HogansHero said: "sorry Joe, you are the one not chilling out, and you also have no idea what you are talking about and you obviously do not want to talk about sopranos in musicals because I am sure you finally dawned on you how silly what you said was. It's ok. Move on. There is no there here."

What a bizarre response. I "don't" want to talk about what I've been talking about all along--the foolishness of requiring the material to incorporate a soprano singer?

Don't be like Trump. Don't get testy or dismissive when reality doesn't jibe with what you need to believe. Move on, indeed.

[James885]

In an attempt to get this back on track, I'll say that I actually caught Spider-Man 1.0 a couple weeks before it went down for revisions. After seeing the final version I can say that Taymor's version was definitely more interesting and inventive than what actually opened. Yes, Act II flew off the rails into an acid trip but Taymor had some potentially good ideas that just weren't executed well. The 'Deeply Furious' song as well as the villain fashion show needed to go and never did. 

The Geek Chorus was an interesting idea, but they were basically only used to cover scene changes and therefore the show would grind to a halt every time they interjected, losing any and all momentum. The idea of using Arachne as a meta way of commentating on the mythological origin of superheroes was again interesting, but was baffling in its execution and they never really found a way to properly weave (no pun intended) Arachne into the Spider-Man mythos. I think it was implied that she was controlling the radioactive spider that gave Peter Parker his powers, but it was never clear what her motives were. The ending was a mess. 

Still, I preferred Taymor's innovative-yet-misguided jumble of a show to the bland and sterile version that opened.  

[A Director]

I don't know if any of these woman are sopranos, but they are all in Rock.

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/best-female-rock-singers/