Does American Theatre need a fundamental new strategy to survive?

[chicagodannyd]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 5:27pm

The pandemic is going on and on and on.  Performers are suffering unemployment.  Audiences are being denied live stage shows.  Is there a need for a fundamental change?  Today, streaming television media are gaining huge popularity.  Maybe the theatre industry should adapt, possibly by offering streaming musical theatre or drama, in addition to limited live performances, on a wide basis.  There has to be a combined effort between broadcast media and live performance groups.  This is just one person's suggestion.  Maybe others will offer something with more promise. SEE MY FINAL COMMENT AT THE END of this posting.

Updated On: 7/18/20 at 05:27 PM

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 6:24pm

chicagodannyd said: "The pandemic is going on and on and on. Performersare suffering unemployment. Audiences are being denied live stage shows. Is there a need for a fundamental change? Today, streaming television media are gaining huge popularity. Maybe the theatre industry should adapt, possibly by offering streaming musical theatre or drama, in addition to limited liveperformances, on a wide basis. There has to be a combinedeffort between broadcast media and live performance groups. This is just one person's suggestion. Maybe others will offer something with more promise."

There are endless posts where this could belong, but the answer is no. The industry has developed a business structure for decades. A halt, while major, will not disrupt the way it operates.

It would take a much more impactful issue to start mass producing streamed performances. This may seem extreme, but it's all temporary. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 6:44pm

to reiterate (and yes this has been discussed ad nauseum in the last months in existing threads) the main thing required at this time is patience. Haste, as the saying goes, makes waste, and making reactive change because, in essence, we are bored with the pandemic, will ultimately prove damaging. We can't afford to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 

[chicagodannyd]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 9:18pm

I am hopeful we get a vaccine ASAP and this whole mess ends and people get back to work.  America needs New York theatre and theatre across the country.

[JennH]

Posted: 7/13/20 at 10:30am

^^^^ That's is becoming more and more iffy by the day. Now that it seems antibodies don't/won't last very long, that puts a huge nail into her immunity, which in turn puts a nail into a long lasting vaccine, IF one one can even be made in the place. But if it is something that you'll have to get a vaccine for more than once throughout your life, that's not unheard of either. MMR and tetanus shots come to mind, or rather tetanus boosters, but you get the point. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/13/20 at 12:57pm

JennH said: "^^^^ That's is becoming more and more iffy by the day. Now that it seems antibodies don't/won't last very long, that puts a huge nail into her immunity, which in turn puts a nail into a long lasting vaccine, IF one one can even be made in the place."

I don't understand the second half of what you wrote (it must have multiple typos I guess) but as to the first, no one knows how long antibody immunity will last or how effective T cell immunity will be after that. So it is not more or less iffy, we just don't know. And we also don't know what other effective treatments we will have. It all gets back to the magic word I said above: patience. We can't rush the theatre's reopening and it is also silly to act like this is an insoluble problem. The only thing we DO know is that the longer parts of this country continue to be stupid, the worse the situation will be. Smart countries are getting back to a satisfactory version of normal.  

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/13/20 at 7:59pm

Short answer: No. 

I do think it will be interesting to see if composers and writers (especially newer/younger ones) will find a way to bypass the need for a big theatrical run by writing shows for the current normal. I'm not advocating more livestream plays or readings. I haven't watched any of them besides Buyer and Cellar. But a show with a small cast and a minimal set could be filmed properly and released in a managed way so that you have to pay to access it. I just don't know if it would attract paying customers without notable talent.

[bwaylyric]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 12:01am

So if new shows are produced to be live-streamed, won't that essentially make it television?  Say goodbye to the Tonys.  The Emmy for Best Musical production goes too...

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 12:20am

As has been said before, live theatre has survived more pandemics than pretty much any other form of entertainment. It will survive this one too and I don't think major changes in strategy/operations will be necessary in the long run.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 12:31am

Live streaming is not about changing theatre; as worm states, it is not really theatre to begin with. What it is is a means of entertaining us while we wait. Unlike the major pandemics that affected the theatre, we no longer have any patience, and we have to be constantly entertained. That's fine, but it is not anything fundamental. There is still only one way to make theatre.

[itsjustmejonhotmailcom]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 2:43am

Here's a list of pandemics that the theatre has survived. The worst of which killed up to 200 million.

https://www.mphonline.org/worst-pandemics-in-history/

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 3:14pm

Much shorter answer than everyone else:

To survive? No.

To co-exist with the most recent pre-pandemic paradigm and move forward in the future? I mean, not a bad idea.

[JennH]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 3:26pm

HogansHero said: "JennH said: "^^^^ That's is becoming more and more iffy by the day. Now that it seems antibodies don't/won't last very long, that puts a huge nail into her immunity, which in turn puts a nail into a long lasting vaccine, IF one one can even be made in the place."

I don't understand the second half of what you wrote (it must have multiple typos I guess) but as to the first, no one knows how long antibody immunity will last or how effective T cell immunity will be after that. So it is not more or less iffy, we just don't know. And we also don't know what other effective treatments we will have. It all gets back to the magic word I said above: patience. We can't rush the theatre's reopening and it is also silly to act like this is an insoluble problem. The only thing we DO know is that the longer parts of this country continue to be stupid, the worse the situation will be. Smart countries are getting back to a satisfactory version of normal."

My apologies, I wrote that in a daze. Yeah good grief....I can't understand me. But overall, yes to all you said.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 10:05pm

What distinguishes a play/musical from a movie/movie musical? There's no question that stage productions filmed for broadcast don't magically become movies/TV shows because of the medium through which they're shown.

[chicagodannyd]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 10:46pm

I am not completely convinced that just waiting is a best strategy for the long term survival of theatre.  It does require a new paradigm, a new way of thinking about the success of theatre in the USA, about broadening its appeal.  I am suggesting an amalgam of live performances integrated with streaming television.  Of course streaming can cover just one performance or a selection of several available to paying audiences.  In the long run, I don't believe televised performances could ever replace the excitement of a live performance, especially a musical.  I remember seeing Jesus Christ Superstar on stage and was blown away by the performance.  However, I would love to see plays and maybe musicals on my rather large TV with a quality sound system, in the convenience of my home.  That would be a treat.  Streaming films and shows on TV are making headway fast in the USA.  Why pass up the opportunity?

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 11:07pm

chicagodannyd said: "I am not completely convinced that just waiting is a best strategy for the long term survival of theatre. It does require a new paradigm, a new way of thinking about the success of theatre in theUSA, about broadening its appeal. I am suggesting an amalgam of live performances integrated with streaming television. Of course streaming can cover just one performance or a selection of several available to paying audiences. In the long run, I don't believe televised performancescould ever replace the excitement of a live performance, especially a musical. I remember seeing Jesus Christ Superstar on stage and was blown away by the performance. However, I would love to see plays and maybe musicals on my ratherlarge TV with a quality sound system, in the convenience of my home. That would be a treat. Streaming films and shows on TV are making headway fast in the USA. Why pass up the opportunity?"

How is than an opportunity?  Just the budget, logistics and production elements to create a performance to be streamed would be a massive operation. Streaming a production that has been filmed is very different than those LIVE musicals that networks seem to fail so successfully at. 

I wish everyone would stop being so dramatic about this.Yes, it's bad but far from the worst that theater has seen. It will go back as is sooner than later, chill your apocalyptic ideas a bit. 

[itsjustmejonhotmailcom]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 11:10pm

chicagodannyd said: "I am not completely convinced that just waiting is a best strategy for the long term survival of theatre. It does require a new paradigm, a new way of thinking about the success of theatre in theUSA, about broadening its appeal. I am suggesting an amalgam of live performances integrated with streaming television. Of course streaming can cover just one performance or a selection of several available to paying audiences. In the long run, I don't believe televised performancescould ever replace the excitement of a live performance, especially a musical. I remember seeing Jesus Christ Superstar on stage and was blown away by the performance. However, I would love to see plays and maybe musicals on my ratherlarge TV with a quality sound system, in the convenience of my home. That would be a treat. Streaming films and shows on TV are making headway fast in the USA. Why pass up the opportunity?"

Do you subscribe to BroadwayHD? Do you rent filmed theater on Amazon? Because that's how we'll get more theater, when it's been proven that streaming can make money.

[chicagodannyd]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 12:15am

To experienced people, recording a performance with quality sound and camera work and editing is not that expensive.  I have been involved in approximately 15 multi-camera recorded productions.  It is not rocket science.  As for production facilities, there are production studios that can be used for shared theatrical groups.  We are not suggesting that all performances be recorded for streaming, just selected ones.  A cost/return, profit analysis would have to conducted to get into the details. Answers are always in the details.  I would not reject any idea or proposal out of hand without a detailed financial analysis.  That is a beginning point.

Updated On: 7/15/20 at 12:15 AM

[itsjustmejonhotmailcom]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 2:00am

chicagodannyd said: "To experienced people, recording a performance with quality sound and camera work and editing is not that expensive. I have been involved in approximately 15 multi-camera recorded productions. It is not rocket science. As for production facilities, there are production studios that can be used for shared theatrical groups. We are not suggesting that all performances be recorded for streaming, just selected ones. A cost/return, profit analysis would have to conducted to get into the details. Answers are always in the details. I would not reject any idea or proposal out of hand without a detailed financial analysis. That is a beginning point."

The cost to rent the equipment, hire the crew, edit the film etc are not the lion's share of the expense of filming shows. Labor for the people who work on the show (actors, authors, designers, crew, etc) is what is expensive. Most of those payments are part of the collective bargaining agreements and can't be negotiated until those agreements come up for negotiation.

[MCW1227]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 8:56am

I think it’s more realistic to have a treatment before we have an effective vaccine.  With flu season ahead, I don’t see theatre coming back until next spring and that’s only with a proven treatment.  We will see a decline  of shows that draw an older crowd for a while so the transformation of theatre will probably continue to target younger audiences.  I don’t think that’s new, that’s been the trend for a while. .  
Streaming can never replace live theatre and as mentioned, who is going to invest in new productions for filming purposes only? The costs and the risks are way too high under these uncertain conditions.  Live theatre will most certainly survive but it will be longer than we had originally hoped.  

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 9:38am

itsjustmejonhotmailcom said: "chicagodannyd said: "To experienced people, recording a performance with quality sound and camera work and editing is not that expensive. I have been involved in approximately 15 multi-camera recorded productions. It is not rocket science. As for production facilities, there are production studios that can be used for shared theatrical groups. We are not suggesting that all performances be recorded for streaming, just selected ones. A cost/return, profit analysis would have to conducted to get into the details. Answers are always in the details. I would not reject any idea or proposal out of hand without a detailed financial analysis. That is a beginning point."

The cost to rent the equipment, hire the crew, edit the film etc are not the lion's share of the expense of filming shows. Labor for the people who work on the show (actors, authors, designers, crew, etc) is what is expensive. Most of those payments are part of the collective bargaining agreements and can't be negotiated until those agreements come up for negotiation."

I don't expect the next big movie adaptation musical to go on streaming. But a show that would otherwise premiere at NYMF or another festival and then go nowhere might actually develop a small following if it was released online. If you have the resources, why not find another way to release your work besides fighting for a spot in the season of one of the non-profit off-Broadway theaters? I don't think everything needs to change but this might be an opportunity for the people who weren't thriving under the traditional system as many people are still spending a lot of time at home looking for something to do. 

Again, I'm thinking of a real filming of a play/musical and not a livestream or a lame web series. 

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 12:04pm

It's probably a bad idea because while I'm probably in the minority with this opinion on this message board but personally if I could watch all shows from home professionally filmed(not crappy YouTube videos) I'd never go to another show again just like I basically never go to the movies anymore.

I feel like a vast majority of people and tourists not on here would end up skipping shows as well. You can't compare it to sports or movies because you don't have to travel to one specific area for those.

Watching from the comfort of my own home, not dealing with crowds, no horrible leg room from seats that are too cramped, can pause anytime I want, no cell phones or annoying people and I save my time and money because I'm not driving and spending gas and tolls and dealing with crappy traffic?

Sign me up.

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 12:21pm

Broadway Joe said: "It's probably a bad idea because while I'm probably in the minority with this opinion on this message board but personally if I could watch all shows from home professionally filmed(not crappy YouTube videos) I'd never go to another show again just like I basically never go to the movies anymore.

I feel like a vast majority of people and tourists not on here would end up skipping shows as well. You can't compare it to sports or movies because you don't have to travel to one specific area for those.

Watching from the comfort of my own home, not dealing with crowds, no horrible leg room from seats that are too cramped, can pause anytime I want, no cell phones or annoying people and I save my time and money because I'm not driving and spending gas and tolls and dealing with crappy traffic?

Sign me up."

Everything you said is why it would not be a good idea of a business model for Broadway. I know there are plenty who would still do the live experience but I'm sure there are also many who feel the way you do

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 5:04pm

Broadway Joe said: "It's probably a bad idea because while I'm probably in the minority with this opinion on this message board but personally if I could watch all shows from home professionally filmed(not crappy YouTube videos) I'd never go to another show again just like I basically never go to the movies anymore.

I feel like a vast majority of people and tourists not on here would end up skipping shows as well. You can't compare it to sports or movies because you don't have to travel to one specific area for those.

Watching from the comfort of my own home, not dealing with crowds, no horrible leg room from seats that are too cramped, can pause anytime I want, no cell phones or annoying people and I save my time and money because I'm not driving and spending gas and tolls and dealing with crappy traffic?

Sign me up."

I think you recognize that the result that you'd sign up for would ultimately depreciate the theatre and, to some extent, destroy it. It's because of that (as well as the direct economics) that it's not gonna happen. I watched Hamilton on my TV which, by today's standards, is small. I enjoyed it but it did not and never would be able to substitute for the shared experience of theatre, any more than watching a baseball game on TV (which I very much look forward to in less than a couple of weeks) can substitute for paying too much money to sit in Yankee Stadium, or any more than considering the finest prepared meal the equivalent of an evening at my favorite restaurants.

[chicagodannyd]

Posted: 7/18/20 at 12:49pm

In the final analysis it is up to the theatre professionals who run the business to decide how they wish to approach the future of New York theatre. You  can wait for the pandemic to finally end and hope for a solid future.  However, in today's complex world there is no guarantee at all of a steady ship traveling successfully through all the problems we have in the USA.  Right now cities like New York and Chicago are experiencing increasing violence that doesn't show signs of letting up.  In addition, those cities are suffering severe economic hardship.  People, especially those who support theatre, are leaving in droves.  Added to that is the pandemic.  There are reliable reports that Covid19 antibodies may not last long in the body.  People have actually gotten the disease twice.  Added to that is the fear of mutant viruses or more virus attacks.  We live in a risky world.  

From my experience in business, the successful businesses always work on plans for the future.  It is called R&D.  And those who sit on their success and remain inflexible, ultimately fail.  Sears is the outstanding example of this.  They did not take the internet seriously and it cost them their business.  Today internet streaming of shows is a fast growing business.  To turn your back on it, eliminate consideration of it as out of hand, can be risky.  I believe yesterday I saw an article on the net that Fox bought Tubi streaming service for 440 million dollars.  Impressive.

I looked at several streaming agreements. Look at it this way:  Let's say a performance of a new show was sold by subscription for 10 bucks and 50,000 people in the USA signed up.  That is half a million dollars.  amazon Firestar takes 20%.  So the show takes 400,000 to pay for production, advertising and profit.  Of course a play would be substantially less costly to record than a musical.  A serious, detailed study of the marketing model needs to be made.  No one is recommending that all performances of a show be streamed.  Maybe one, or several, or maybe a different show very two weeks.  I am not going to comment on this further.  I have my own businesses in development that have nothing to do with show business and take up a lot of time. I leave you with this:  A judicious, wise business man/woman always has a backup plan.  He/she is a visionary.  Goodbye and good luck.