Actors With Unhealthy Singing Technique?- Page 2

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 11:34am

Romanticizing the lack of proper technique is dangerous. It's years of study and a good technique that keep a singer's voice in perfect shape for decades, while untrained voices tend to have a shorter career. This is particularly evident in opera singers, but it's also true for musical theatre. Ruthie Henshall has been paying since her 40s the consequences of the soprano roles she sang in the 90s and Alice Ripley's unhealthy technique is one of the reasons why ten years ago she was a Broadway star and now she does regional theatre.

[broadway86]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 12:22pm

darquegk said: "It doesn’t show much on the cast recording, but Sophia Anne Caruso’s vocal performance in “Beetlejuice” was genuinely frightening at times, moving between standard Broadway sound, pop mix and unexpected feral screams and growls. She was going to places I have never heard a teenage girl’s voice go, and sometimes it got so primal and raw that I became less impressed and more concerned."

I saw it very shortly after opening, and her voice was in terrific shape, didn't notice anything crazy. Then I came across videos on YouTube from later on in the run, and she was all over the place. Definitely concerning.

[Danasi]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 12:59pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "Okay, this one isn’t about a singer but one classic case is Lucille Ball. Many attribute her later deep, husky voice to her live-long cigarette smoking when the true cause of her vocal damage was the higher octave she used in her television work, starting on 1951’s CBS comedy I LOVE LUCY. She found the higher intonations for her Lucy Ricardo character added a funnier layer so she used it for the rest of her career. Unfortunately, she never learned to do vocal warm-ups or realize this vocal straining would have long-life damage to her vocal cords."

That's interesting.  I've heard about many of the actors mentioned here before, but never that about Lucille Ball.  i'm going to be listening to her voice more carefully the next time I watch I Love Lucy and any of the pre-Lucy movies she filmed

[helvizz]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 1:18pm

qolbinau said: "I don't think Bernadette Peters is known for having particularly strong/classical vocal technique, although I believe she describes a shift in her technique when she learned how to sing "Song & Dance" 8 shows a week.

Not sure how controversial/wrong this is, but Iwonder though if prestine vocal techique can sometimes take some of the expressiveness and individuality out of voices though. Kelli's "To Build a Home" is one of my favourite performances ever, and I love me some Audra - but there is something thrilling and exciting about the sound of raw voices like Bernadette Peters or Alice Ripleytearing through songs."

Ha, I think the opposite. I remember when Marin Mazzie took over the role of Diana. Granted, her singing was very different, she used her head voice throughout a big chunk of the score instead of her mix, but in the lines she belted, I couldn't help but be mesmorized by how much better the score sounded when it was sung healthily. To each, their own.

 

[binau]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 1:42pm

I actually do agree with you in this specific case because the only time I saw Alice Ripley in the role she was already extremely damanged vocally (near the end of the tour). It was uncomfortable to watch. But she sounds thrilling to me on the cast recording/my understanding from those that saw her in the first year or so of performances is that she sounded thrilling then. 

[Dollypop]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 1:54pm

As I work to get my voice back to what it was, I'm listening to Robert Goulrt. What a pristine voice he had and his range was exceptional...and he made it all sound effortless!

[Jshan05]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 2:38pm

I agree about the Next To Normal/Alice Ripley issues. I watched the streaming of the TheatreWorks N2N production and I was so much more moved by Christiane Noll's voice. The score sounded so much different.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 3:51pm

Danasi said: "BrodyFosse123 said: "Okay, this one isn’t about a singer but one classic case is Lucille Ball. Many attribute her later deep, husky voice to her live-long cigarette smoking when the true cause of her vocal damage was the higher octave she used in her television work, starting on 1951’s CBS comedy I LOVE LUCY. She found the higher intonations for her Lucy Ricardo character added a funnier layer so she used it for the rest of her career. Unfortunately, she never learned to do vocal warm-ups or realize this vocal straining would have long-life damage to her vocal cords."

That's interesting. I've heard about many of the actors mentioned here before, but never that about Lucille Ball. i'm going to be listening to her voice more carefully the next time I watch I Love Lucy and any of the pre-Lucy movies she filmed"

You’ll notice on her pre-Lucy films, her voice is a natural low register then on I LOVE LUCY (even on the older Lucy shows), she uses a noticeably higher voice.  Almost a head voice.  It’s definitely a character choice similar to Megan Mullally’s reasoning for giving her character Karen Walker on WILL & GRACE the iconic high voice.  The voice added a comic layering to the written dialogue that otherwise wouldn’t have been there had she used her normal low speaking voice.  

[darquegk]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 4:40pm

broadway86 said: "I saw it very shortly after opening, and her voice was in terrific shape, didn't notice anything crazy. Then I came across videos on YouTube from later on in the run, and she was all over the place. Definitely concerning."

 

The performance of “Home” on the video I saw (the Will Blum bootleg) is cracking with this deeply unsettling energy. It’s not quite “oh, I’m seeing a star being born,” it’s more “I am frightened of and for this girl, because she’s pushing her body so hard she’s gotta be pushing her mind even harder.”  It made me think of the day everyone saw Heath Ledger go full Joker for the first time and recognized the toll it had to be taking on him.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 5:34pm

latitudex1 said: "I'm not sure technique played as much of a factor as much as him singing through injury and/or illness and the fact that he is very much a classic B'way baritone that was very much screaming (for effect) some of the top notes of songs written by and for a pop tenor."

Just curious. Any examples of Steve Kazee singing a song intended for a baritone range?

[latitudex1]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 5:50pm

VintageSnarker said: "latitudex1 said: "I'm not sure technique played as much of a factor as much as him singing through injury and/or illness and the fact that he is very much a classic B'way baritone that was very much screaming (for effect) some of the top notes of songs written by and for a pop tenor."

Just curious. Any examples of Steve Kazee singing a song intended for a baritone range?"

Rain - 110 in the Shade

Megan Hilty and Steve Kazee Sing "Fine"

 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 6:01pm

JennH said: "Jenna is doable but still pretty difficult even for the most steel corded singers, I can't blame Jessie for that...the end of a run with a role like that is pretty much always going to be straining."

This is not meant as a criticism of Sara Bareilles as a composer, but the role of Jenna plays to her strengths as a singer. It's pretty apparent when you listen to her versions of the songs compared to the other Jennas. Even with Alison Luff who sang the role amazingly or Shoshana Bean, who has even greater vocal power and versatility with her range, all the other Jennas are negotiating a score that comes naturally to Bareilles. 

Thanks @latitudex1

[BCfitasafiddle]

Posted: 7/7/20 at 6:46pm

I think there is something to be said of the fact that Mueller did play the role the longest and without breaks coming back to it after time off. Plus, she rarely missed performances. She was definitely going to be worn out having done it for a full year whereas the others did stints for a few months / would come and go from the production.

[JennH]

Posted: 7/8/20 at 9:53am

VintageSnarker said: "JennH said: "Jenna is doable but still pretty difficult even for the most steel corded singers, I can't blame Jessie for that...the end of a run with a role like that is pretty much always going to be straining."

This is not meant as a criticism of Sara Bareilles as a composer, but the role of Jenna plays to her strengths as a singer. It's pretty apparent when you listen to her versions of the songs compared to the other Jennas. Even with Alison Luff who sang the role amazingly or Shoshana Bean, who has even greater vocal power and versatility with her range, all the other Jennas are negotiating a score that comes naturally to Bareilles.

Thanks @latitudex1"

Oh yep that too. That didn't come to mind at first, but you're absolutely right. Material being catered to specific performers is a thing even outside of shows that were composed by the very writer than ended being in their own show. Sara and Lin are the prime examples of this in the current era, but even when that's not the case, some material was so obviously written for a specific voice. Frozen for Idina anyone? Although that doesn't mean much...I swear, it's like the Lopez's WANTED to wreck any voice that would sing that stuff.

[TNick926]

Posted: 7/8/20 at 11:01am

I'm loving reading this thread, being a long-time Broadway fan and sometime singer myself (cabaret shows, mostly).  I'm thinking of how someone like Ethel Merman sounded so robust and belty and brilliant, but she could also be very expressive singing softer, and she never seemed to lose much even in her later years and disco album!  I think much of that can be attributed to roles that are well-suited to the human voice, with lots of time between songs, and the artful skill of Cole Porter, Jule Styne, Irving Berlin, etc. to write for singers.  Ethel was a secretary from Queens as most of us know before bursting onto the scene, and never had a music lesson in her life, as far as I know.  But she had perfect support, placement and instinctual care in the way she used her voice (not to mention a bigger vibrato, someone would say "wobble" as she got much older).

Of current singers (God! I hope we get to hear them LIVE again sometime soon!), I feel Aaon Tveit, Norbert Leo Butz, Leslie Kritzer, Danny Burstein, Kate Baldwin, Gavin Creel, not to mention again Audra, Kelli, etc. are all examples of actor singers who have good technique and should hopefully be singing and sounding good late into their careers.  I must add that Nick Cordero was a beautiful singer...hearing him sing "One of the Great Ones" live on stage in A BRONX TALE was a transporting experience...we lost a great one there....

I recently had the pleasure of attending the memorial for Jerry Herman, which was a veritable parade of Broadway's shining stars, and people like Leslie Uggams killer "I Am What I Am", Marilyn Maye's "It's Today", and Michael Feinstein's "I Won't Send Roses" were glorious examples of how great older performers can be when they take care of their voice and use it properly.

Updated On: 7/8/20 at 11:01 AM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/8/20 at 4:48pm

I was told by someone quite knowledgeable on the subject that Sierra Boggess really hurt her voice in The Little Mermaid and you can tell when you hear her sing now.

I'm super curious about Ruthie Henshall - what happened to her voice? Was she using incorrect technique when singing those soprano roles?

[schubox]

Posted: 7/8/20 at 5:05pm

Jshan05 said: "I think I remember reading an interview with Alex Brightman saying that School of Rock really f***ed up his vocal chords, even so much that he had to cut back the number of shows he could do weekly AND his upper range being extremely affected from there on out."

I was actually just listening to a podcast with him and he hemorrhaged one of his vocal cords. He thought he was done. He took a week or so off and started doing one less show because the high range of the part was too much for him. But he said after he went to a vocal coach and still goes to them and that's where he developed the Beetlejuice voice and made sure it was healthy and all that.

[Loopin’theloop]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 7:39am

SporkGoddess said: "I was told by someone quite knowledgeable on the subject that Sierra Boggess really hurt her voice in The Little Mermaid and you can tell when you hear her sing now.

I'm super curious about Ruthie Henshall - what happened to her voice? Was she using incorrect technique when singing those soprano roles?"

I don’t necessarily think that the soprano roles that Ruthie Henshall played are responsible for destroying her voice. She just had terrible technique whatever she was singing. You can see the strain in her neck whatever range she is singing in. 
 

I loved her voice. It was so unique. I especially loved the timbre of her soprano. However, the unique qualities came at the cost of longevity because it was due to poor  technique. Also, lots of cigarettes and alcohol. Her voice is shredded now, it’s in the worst shape of any high profile musical theatre person with vocal damage, that I have ever heard. There are clips of her when she is so below a note she almost out by a full tone. It’s a terrible shame but that’s what happens if you don’t take care of your instrument. She was certainly warned.

 

[Dollypop]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 12:10pm

TNick926 said: "I'm loving reading this thread, being a long-time Broadway fan and sometime singer myself (cabaret shows, mostly). I'm thinking of how someone like Ethel Merman sounded so robust and belty and brilliant, but she could also be very expressive singing softer, and she never seemed to lose mucheven in her later years and disco album! I think much of that can be attributed to roles that are well-suited to the human voice, with lots of time between songs, and the artful skill of Cole Porter, Jule Styne, Irving Berlin, etc. to write for singers. Ethel was a secretary from Queens as most of us know before bursting onto the scene, and never had a music lesson in her life, as far as I know. But she had perfect support, placement and instinctual care in the way she used her voice (not to mention a bigger vibrato, someone would say "wobble" as she got much older).

Of current singers (God! I hope we get to hear them LIVE again sometime soon!), I feel Aaon Tveit, Norbert Leo Butz, Leslie Kritzer, Danny Burstein, Kate Baldwin, Gavin Creel, not to mention again Audra, Kelli, etc. are all examples of actor singers who have good technique and should hopefully be singing and sounding good late into their careers. I must add that Nick Cordero was a beautiful singer...hearing him sing "One of the Great Ones" live on stage in A BRONX TALE was a transporting experience...we lost a great one there....

I recently had the pleasure of attending the memorial for Jerry Herman, which was a veritable parade of Broadway's shining stars, and people like Leslie Uggams killer "I Am What I Am", Marilyn Maye's "It's Today", and Michael Feinstein's "I Won't Send Roses" were glorious examples of how great olderperformers can be when they take care of their voiceand use it properly."

 

I was also at that memorial. Please remember that those skilled singers were performing the music of a man who knew how to write for singers.

 

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 1:54pm

I loved her voice. It was so unique. I especially loved the timbre of her soprano. However, the unique qualities came at the cost of longevity because it was due to poor  technique. Also, lots of cigarettes and alcohol. Her voice is shredded now, it’s in the worst shape of any high profile musical theatre person with vocal damage, that I have ever heard. There are clips of her when she is so below a note she almost out by a full tone. It’s a terrible shame but that’s what happens if you don’t take care of your instrument. She was certainly warned.
 

Thanks for the response! Would you mind elaborating on what specifically was bad about her technique? As a soprano myself, it's always good to know what not to do. I'm watching a video of her singing "Ice Cream" from She Loves Me and she does seem to have placement issues.

Updated On: 7/10/20 at 01:54 PM

[broadwayboy223]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 2:41pm

A big problem is the fact a lot modern vocal pedagogy is inherently not functional. For example “placement”. People are taught to “place” their voices in certain areas. Why it doesn’t work is that the vocal folds come together and resonate throughout the skull, you can’t physically place your voice anywhere. Yes, you’re going to feel sensations when you sing, even vibrations-but you can’t go for that feeling, you can’t force it.

Usually what happens when people “place” their voices is tension and nasality.

Just my two cents (I’m sure people will disagree with me).

[bwaylvsong1]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 5:00pm

latitudex1 said: "VintageSnarker said: "latitudex1 said: "I'm not sure technique played as much of a factor as much as him singing through injury and/or illness and the fact that he is very much a classic B'way baritone that was very much screaming (for effect) some of the top notes of songs written by and for a pop tenor."

Just curious. Any examples of Steve Kazee singing a song intended for a baritone range?"

Rain - 110 in the Shade

Megan Hilty and Steve Kazee Sing "Fine"

 

"

I found Kazee's voice to sound strained/thin when I saw him in "110 in the Shade" though he sounds great on the recording.

[AADA81]

Posted: 7/10/20 at 11:08pm

Danasi said: "BrodyFosse123 said: "Okay, this one isn’t about a singer but one classic case is Lucille Ball. Many attribute her later deep, husky voice to her live-long cigarette smoking when the true cause of her vocal damage was the higher octave she used in her television work, starting on 1951’s CBS comedy I LOVE LUCY. She found the higher intonations for her Lucy Ricardo character added a funnier layer so she used it for the rest of her career. Unfortunately, she never learned to do vocal warm-ups or realize this vocal straining would have long-life damage to her vocal cords."

That's interesting. I've heard about many of the actors mentioned here before, but never that about Lucille Ball. i'm going to be listening to her voice more carefully the next time I watch I Love Lucy and any of the pre-Lucy movies she filmed"

Lucy also had to deal with the primitive sound technology of television and of TV sets and reception in the early 50s.  Speaking loudly and enunciating clearly were emphasized so audiences could understand the dialog.  As technology improved, Lucy didn't change her approach and continued to "announce" her lines loudly, which took a great strain on her voice.

[scripps]

Posted: 7/11/20 at 1:02am

Reading through this thread and saw Ruthie Henshall's name. I haven't heard her sing in quite some time (not that I was looking for her either) so out of curiosity I turned to YouTube to hear what her voice sounds like nowadays and found this ... "I Still Believe" (Lytham Festival) ... yikes. 

[Luminaire2]

Posted: 7/11/20 at 1:29am

Laura Bell Bundy really did struggle in her Legally Blonde run. No idea if it was technique or just a voice shredder of
a role.