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Phantom to change to "re-staged" production in flagship productions?- Page 5

Phantom to change to "re-staged" production in flagship productions?

KingOfTheMine Profile Photo
KingOfTheMine
#100Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/22/20 at 2:26pm

joevitus said: "Lot666 said: "joevitus said: "am I to understand nothing rises in the touring production? It's already up there in place? Doesn't that kinda kill the whole point of the dialogue leading into the Overture? Do you just sit there in the dark listening to the Overture?"

Yes, the chandelier becomes totally extraneous. Ridiculous, isn't it?
"

Hugely. And odd, since if the chandelier has to fall at the end of Act 1, anyway, so why not raise it from the floor in the opening? Infact, I'd always assumed the real reason the play opens with this effect (which, as far as the plot goes, makes no sense)is so that audiences will see the chandelier is safely attached and won't really crash down on them during the Act 1 climax.
"

When the chandelier crashes in this tour version, it doesn't fall to the stage. It shakes and its lights flicker, then it releases sparks and fake glass shards before falling straight down.  It stops maybe 15 feet above the audience and there's a blackout.

joevitus Profile Photo
joevitus
#101Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/22/20 at 5:51pm

I'd ask for my money back.

BroadwayNYC2 Profile Photo
BroadwayNYC2
#102Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/22/20 at 6:01pm

IF they swap in the touring production (and I don’t want them too), i wish they’d move it to a smaller theatre so it feels a bit more intimate.

That being said, the long-runners are going to be very symbolic in bringing back Broadway. Hope the original production stays put

tourboi
#103Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/22/20 at 6:22pm

joevitus said: "I mean, I'm kinda blah on the rising chandelier as an effect, but am I to understand nothing rises in the touring production? It's already up there in place? Doesn't that kinda kill the whole point of the dialogue leading into the Overture? Do you just sit there in the dark listening to the Overture?"

 

it does rise. It begins lower than its ultimate height, the auctioneer calls for lot 666 and its lowered to a few feet above the audience. At the start of the overture, the canvas disappears and reveals the chandelier which explodes with pyro, at which point it slowly ascends to the full ceiling in time with the music.... all the while on stage Raoul watches his memories come to life as the opera house restores itself, proscenium flies in, and boxes spin to Reveal their original splendor.

 

Phantom4ever
#104Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/23/20 at 12:11am

IF changes are being done to the New York and London productions, it will most likely be the NEW international tour version, which is basically the Prince/Bjornson version, cheapened. The current (or recently current) tour doesn't seem like it's in the running to be the replacement. So we are probably talking about a reduced orchestra, a chandelier that rises and falls very similar to the original, except that the angel won't be there so the pulley system is rigged through the false proscenium, which will be stripped of most of its statuary. But, all I know is what I glean off various message board so who knows maybe it'll be all projections. 

Lot666 Profile Photo
Lot666
#105Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/23/20 at 2:33pm

Phantom4ever said: "maybe it'll be all projections."

That would definitely kill 100% of my passion for the show.

 


==> this board is a nest of vipers <==

"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

Phantom4ever
#106Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/23/20 at 4:33pm

Lot666, if the New York production does get rid of the angel, re-vamp the chandelier, and remove the statues from the proscenium, would you still go and see it, repeatedly?  

 

Phantom old and new

LexiGirl Profile Photo
LexiGirl
#107Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/23/20 at 4:52pm

I am really kicking myself now for not seeing this on previous trips. I had finally bought 4th row seats to see it in April! Sigh.

Lot666 Profile Photo
Lot666
#108Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/27/20 at 9:53am

Phantom4ever said: "Lot666, if the New York production does get rid of the angel, re-vamp the chandelier, and remove the statues from the proscenium, would you still go and see it, repeatedly?"

I may be in the minority on this view, but I'm not married to the fly-in angel ( "I gave you my music..." ). That set piece is one of the few aspects of the show that has always struck an oddly discordant note to me because the visual is not representative of any actual occurrence. At this point in the story, the three characters are supposed to be on the roof of the opera house, where the sculptural figures are quite fixed in place, so I've always thought it strange that they opted to make the Phantom appear on a "flying carpet" of sorts. 

I saw the Cameron Mackintosh "reimagined" U.S. tour early in its run and was very disappointed in almost every aspect of it. Aside from the descending angel, everything else from "The Brilliant Original" is pretty much non-negotiable for me:

Ruthie must be on the stage in the auction scene, ascend to the ceiling during the overture, and crash to the stage at the end of act one.

The monkey music box must not be changed to that ridiculously outsized piece they created for the tour.

Christine must have a private dressing room. In the touring production, she shares a space with all the other ballet girls, which creates a plot hole.

During the title song, the candles must rise out of the stage and the Phantom and Christine must not be seen getting into and out of the boat as they were in the touring production, as that renders the boat completely pointless (the entire journey obviously comprises a distance of fewer than 10 feet).

The lair must not be changed to a bedroom, as it was in the U.S. tour.

Masquerade must be staged on the staircase. Also, the Phantom may not simply open a door and walk into the room, and he must wear the original Red Death costume (not the ridiculous "uniform" costume he wore in the 2004 movie and the tour). If his appearance does not frighten the other characters, the plot falls apart.

The rehearsal scene for Don Juan Triumphant must include the piano that comes to life and plays the melody of its own accord.


==> this board is a nest of vipers <==

"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage
Updated On: 7/28/20 at 09:53 AM

Lot666 Profile Photo
Lot666
#109Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/27/20 at 9:59am

LexiGirl said: "I am really kicking myself now for not seeing this on previous trips. I had finally bought 4th row seatsto see it in April! Sigh."

I've experienced many such regrets in my life (e.g., I missed the original production of Sunset Boulevard), and this is why I've seen Phantom literally every time I've visited New York. Countless people have asked me why I do this, and my response has always been the same: Because you never know when this time will be the last time.


==> this board is a nest of vipers <==

"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

KingOfTheMine Profile Photo
KingOfTheMine
#110Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/27/20 at 3:50pm

For anyone interested, the Instagram post linked in this new BWW article has a few shots of the new proscenium and overall design of the international tour. Also interesting to see how the production has been working around the pandemic in Seoul.

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/BWW-Exclusive-How-THE-PHANTOM-OF-THE-OPERA-Brought-Theatre-Back-to-Seoul-and-Is-Giving-Hope-to-Shows-Around-the-World-20200727

blaxx Profile Photo
blaxx
#111Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 8:23am

Well, the West End production and UK tour have shut down for good...

https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/theatre/cameron-mackintosh-covid-london-theatre-west-end-a4510241.html


Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
Updated On: 7/28/20 at 08:23 AM

bwayphreak234 Profile Photo
bwayphreak234
#112Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 8:24am

This is a disgusting ploy by Mackintosh to phase out the original brilliant production and replace it with the cheap garbage fire new production.


"There’s nothing quite like the power and the passion of Broadway music. "

KingOfTheMine Profile Photo
KingOfTheMine
#113Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 8:46am

It definitely seems like this was the plan all along and Mackintosh is framing the closure as a financial necessity in order to save face. The question now is: what will the show look like in London whenever he brings it back? Might they be using elements from the UK tour and that's why that production is closing as well? And nothing mentioned in that announcement about the Broadway production, so what's next on this side of the pond?

MikeInTheDistrict Profile Photo
MikeInTheDistrict
#114Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 10:59am

I'm confused by this. From the article:

With no endgame to this crisis in sight, last week I had to follow through with the awful, distressing downsizing of my organisation to ensure my company’s survival. In early May I warned Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden and the Government that this would be necessary unless we received financial help. Despite the recent announcement of a £1.57 billion rescue fund for the arts, this help still hasn’t materialised. When Covid hit, all my eight theatres were packed with hit shows including some of my own. So as by far the largest independent employer in the West End it is not surprising that as both theatre owner and producer, with no outside investors, I’ve taken a huge financial hit. On top of this, Andrew and I have had to sadly permanently shut down our London and UK touring productions of The Phantom of the Opera, but are determined to bring it back to London in the future.

So, does this mean that the West End production of Phantom at Her Majesty's Theatre has officially ended its 34-year run?? Is the production evacuating Her Majesty's Theatre of all the sets and costumes (and I assume all the people working on the production are released from their contract)? So any production of Phantom  that opens in the West End after the pandemic will be a revival, and not simply the re-opened original production?

If it's expensive to keep the London production intact, I can't imagine Broadway is any cheaper. I would really like to see the production at the Majestic at least one more time if it suffers the same ostensible fate as the London production.

VotePeron Profile Photo
VotePeron
#115Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 11:08am

Obviously the Les Mis transition went well - the All Star Concert sold out its entire run and the new version was proving as successful with audiences as the last - why wouldn’t Mackintosh take this opportunity to do the same with Phantom? It’s cheaper, the new machinery will last longer - and most importantly of all - none of the general public will care. None. I don’t know any tourists that won’t go to Phantom in London or NY that will decide not to see the show because it’s not “the brilliant original.”

I love Phantom dearly, and I love theater. But the only thing certain about theater is it ends.

Tag Profile Photo
Tag
#116Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 11:20am

We all know the reason here (he wants to replace the original with a new cheaper version) but I think the bigger problem here is the optics this will create on a wider scale.  "If Phantom of the Freaking Opera can't survive, then the West End and theatre are doomed." Cameron is being reckless with announcing this now - there is no need to announce this.  He's creating more panic.

KingOfTheMine Profile Photo
KingOfTheMine
#117Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 11:22am

I also read the announcement to mean that Phantom has played its last performance in London and any reopening will be considered a revival. One thing that might have spared the Broadway production is that the cost to close the current production, complete a load out, and load in the new production would be much higher here due to the strength of our unions. We usually complain about how high this makes our ticket prices by comparison, but maybe that's actually working in our favor in this case.

The Scorpion
#118Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 11:43am

I also read the announcement to mean that Phantom has played its last performance in London and any reopening will be considered a revival. One thing that might have spared the Broadway production is that the cost to close the current production, complete a load out, and load in the new production would be much higher here due to the strength of our unions. We usually complain about how high this makes our ticket prices by comparison, but maybe that's actually working in our favor in this case. 

This is how I read it. Interesting thoughts about Broadway, I assume Broadway will have far higher running costs (particularly as neither ALW nor CamMac owns the Majestic) but didn't factor in the costs of doing a load-out. I hope the Broadway production stays safe for now, but with Cameron Mackintosh so ready to kill the flagship London production, I don't think anything can be taken for granted.

I knew as soon as Hal Prince passed that it would spell trouble for the show. What really saddens me is that the production has never been captured properly for professional, commercial release - and there is a HUGE market there. The Albert Hall sales are only so high because there is nothing else - but it is not an accurate representation of what Hal Prince and Maria Björnson conceived at the theatre. To me, it's a tragedy if future generations only have that to go on for some idea as to what the show was.

I am fully expecting Cameron Mackintosh to roll in a much-cheapened version, à la recent UK tour, and claim it is still the 'brilliant original', but I really hope not. In a way, I'd rather this was seen as a closure if that is his intention, because audiences shouldn't be conned into thinking that they're seeing the fabulous production that opened there in 1986 if he rolls in a watered-down show.

 

Matthew Davies Stockton
#119Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 12:40pm

Everything seems to be changing these days. I guess we will all have to get used to it. crying


Living the dream one act at a time.

Lot666 Profile Photo
Lot666
#120Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 3:00pm

The Scorpion said: "I knew as soon as Hal Prince passed that it would spell trouble for the show. What really saddens me is that the production has never been captured properly for professional, commercial release - and there is a HUGE market there. The Albert Hall sales are only so high because there is nothing else - but it is not an accurate representation of what Hal Prince and Maria Björnson conceived at the theatre. To me, it's a tragedy if future generations only have that to go on for some idea as to what the show was.

I am fully expecting Cameron Mackintosh to roll in a much-cheapened version, à la recent UK tour, and claim it is still the 'brilliant original', but I really hope not. In a way, I'd rather this was seen as a closure if that is his intention, because audiences shouldn't be conned into thinking that they're seeing the fabulous production that opened there in 1986 if he rolls in a watered-down show.
"

I agree with all of this.

Also, regarding London vs. New York and what's at stake with closing the respective productions, I posted this back in June:

It also occurs to me that Les Miserables is (or was, now that Mackintosh did his number on that show) touted as the longest running musical in the West End, so changing the London production of Phantom would be slightly less problematic because the show isn't resting on the "longest running" accolade there. However, Phantom still is the longest running musical in Broadway history and it is consistently marketed as such. If they mess with the New York production, the immeasurable value of that title could be lost forever.


==> this board is a nest of vipers <==

"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

Tag Profile Photo
Tag
#121Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 3:16pm

The Weissler's are waiting, and salivating, in the wings for that title.

AEA AGMA SM
#122Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 3:30pm

Tag said: "The Weissler's are waiting, and salivating,in the wings for that title."

And Disney will be putting the paperwork together to buy them soon enough after that. 

joevitus Profile Photo
joevitus
#123Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 3:46pm

What particularly interests me about this thread is that Macintosh in no way cares about Phantom as much as Les Miz.. In fact, ALW wanted the Barbicon or the Palace (can't remember which) for Phantom, and Macintosh refused, giving it to Les Miz instead. That show was his baby. So if he was willing to replace it with a cheap copy, what reason is there for him to not do the same with Phantom, other that than the arguable point that Phantom's visula effects are more essenital to the meaning and logic of the work than in the case of Les Miz?

Personally, I don't think much of Phantom, but seeing this love for the show from its fans, over so many years, decades, is a pretty wonderful thing to witness. That's what theater is all about: connecting with and satisfying your audience. 

Elfuhbuh Profile Photo
Elfuhbuh
#124Phantom to change to
Posted: 7/28/20 at 4:46pm

This is awful news. What’s even worse is that if they ever do a “revival,” it will probably be that garbage touring production. I’d rather they start from scratch and come up with something completely new in terms of staging, costumes, and directing if they ever want to bring it back, but I’m not holding my breath.


"Was uns befreit, das muss stärker sein als wir es sind." -Tanz der Vampire