Musicals at the Golden Theatre

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 12:11pm

I was looking back at the history of shows at different theatres and realized that since Avenue Q closed, there hasn't been a single musical at the Golden Theatre.  Is there a specific reason for that trend, or is it just a coincedence?  Furthermore, are there any factors that determine whether theatres are used more for musicals or plays?

[supersam1026]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 12:16pm

It's one of the smallest theaters on Broadway. More often than not, musicals cost a lot more to put on than plays. Smaller theater= less tickets sold= much harder to turn a profit. That's why smaller, limited run plays have seem to occupy it for the better part of the last 10 years. 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 2:17pm

supersam1026 said: "It's one of the smallest theaters on Broadway. More often than not, musicals cost a lot more to put on than plays. Smaller theater= less tickets sold= much harder to turn a profit. That's why smaller, limited run plays have seem to occupy it for the better part of the last 10 years."

All this as well as the physical space. Generally speaking, musicals tend to have larger casts and more scenic requirements. So for a 7-person, uniset musical like Avenue Q, a smaller space like the Golden was perfect. But something like Hello, Dolly, for instance, would never fit on that stage.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 2:26pm

There have been musicals / revues before Avenue Q, but few and far between.  They need a small cast and a small weekly nut or they never have a chance at returning their investment.  I can only think of two that I saw there: a South African revue 'Wait a Minim', which I hated; and A Day in Hollywood / A Night in the Ukraine, which received a lot of Tony nods and won at least two Tonys (choreography - Tommy Tune and Featured Actress -- Priscilla Lopez).  Small cast also.  Gotta fit the sets and gotta have a chance at turning a profit actually successful.  

[Broadway Bob*]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 6:01pm

The original FALSETTOS also played the Golden 1992-1994ish. I saw it there (my first Broadway show, in fact) March 1993 with Mandy Patinkin, Chip Zien, Stephen Bogardus, and Barbara Walsh.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 6:42pm

Small size is definitely one major factor, but it doesn't totally explain it, for 2 reasons:

1. These days we see more and more musicals that seek out more intimate houses, either because because the material calls for more intimacy, and a physically smaller production, or because small capacity increases demand. So why not the Golden, if the production fits? 

2. The Golden isn't even that small, compared to some other theatres that have also housed musicals recently: the Booth and the Hayes are both smaller than the Golden, and both of them have housed musicals more recently than Avenue Q. The American Airlines and the Friedman are also smaller than the Golden, and both of them have also housed musicals in recent years (though it's much more rare for the Friedman) - but since they're run by non-profits, they wouldn't be as concerned with selling more tickets. Also, the Circle in the Square has only 35 more seats than the Golden, and they house musicals all the time. 

 

If I had to guess what the other missing factor is here, I would guess that it's just a question of owner preference, and producer demand. Scott Rudin seems to enjoy booking it for his smaller productions, and it seems that other producers like to, as well. So the theatre is probably in high demand among producers who are looking for a small house to do a limited run plays. And because demand is high, the Shuberts might not feel the need to stick a musical in there. And maybe they feel that it's a valuable business tactic to keep the Golden from being booked for long periods of time (as most musicals are open runs), so they can maintain a fruitful business relationship with producers like Rudin, who need to the space to produce small, limited run plays. 

This is all just speculation. I have no idea if this is how the Shuberts think. It just seems like a logical explanation to me. 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 7:53pm

I also believe that the pit area at the Golden is very small. Avenue Q's orchestra was only 7 musicians.

Here's the theater's history of every production. Very few musicals.

https://www.ibdb.com/theatre/john-golden-theatre-1265

[DiscoCrows]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 11:05pm

ACL2006 said: "I also believe that the pit area at the Golden is very small. Avenue Q's orchestra was only 7 musicians.

Here's the theater's history of every production. Very few musicals.

https://www.ibdb.com/theatre/john-golden-theatre-1265"

Was going to bring this up. I don't know the specific intricacies or numbers behind this off the top of my head, but I am pretty sure that there is a rule that dictates a specific minimum number of required musicians in the orchestra pit dependent on the Broadway house's seating capacity, mandated by Musicians Union Local 802. Smaller houses like the Golden, for example, I believe have a minimum of 3 musicians while larger houses like the Gershwin can have upwards of 20 which I can only imagine might have an impact on real-estate and the abilities for producers to put larger musicals in smaller houses and vice versa. I don't know much about this and it's more or less information I've read while trying to study and research this stuff from other producers but if anyone can comment on this practice it's be great to hear more.

Updated On: 6/14/20 at 11:05 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/14/20 at 11:12pm

Beg pardon, Disco, but the musicians minimum shouldn't be a problem at the Golden unless a musical producer plans to use canned accompaniment.

The size of the orchestra pit sounds like more of an obstacle.

Also, some houses get certain reputations over time. It may be that before AVENUE Q, the Golden was simply known as "not a musical house". Despite a year-long run of FALSETTOS almost 30 years ago, the Golden's most famous shows have been straight plays and special events.

[Sampatches]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 12:29am

The dressing rooms are also really small, several only being able to fit 1 person comfortably. I have no idea how they managed to cram 20 people in there for Hangmen. There’s also not a lot of backstage space.

Updated On: 6/15/20 at 12:29 AM

[DiscoCrows]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 1:21am

GavestonPS said: "Beg pardon, Disco, but the musicians minimum shouldn't be a problem at the Golden unless a musical producer plans to use canned accompaniment.

The size of the orchestra pit sounds like more of an obstacle.

Also, some houses get certain reputations over time. It may be that before AVENUE Q, the Golden was simply known as "not a musical house". Despite a year-long run of FALSETTOS almost 30 years ago, the Golden's most famous shows have been straight plays and special events."

Canned as in some sort of tracked accompaniment? And yeah, I can imagine the actual physical space being an issue as well.

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 2:29am

There actually is no orchestra pit in the Golden--for Avenue Q, the band was in a separate room, connected through the sound system and monitors. This happens more and more in tiny (especially off-broadway) houses--I remember an article in the New York Times way back about the Carrie revival and how that show had the band in an entirely different building next door, if I remember correctly. But nobody really longs for this sort of situation. What defines a musical house and a non-musical house is more than just audience capacity but logistical situations as well. So while the Circle in the Square is approximately the same capacity, its adaptability has allowed different productions to place their bands in different locations, whereas the Golden just has a lot of technical hoops to jump through. This isn't the only reason musicals are rare there, surely, but it's not an encouraging factor.

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 9:26am

From what I've seen on the internet, the Falsettos band was above the stage, à la the newest Company revival, correct?

Thanks so much for all this information.  As someone who would love to work backstage on a show - either at my local performing arts center or on Broadway - one day, it's fascinating to read about what goes into how each theatre can accommodate each show.

[saxpower]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 10:36am

Yes, the Falsettos Orchestra was on a platform.  When they did the "teeny tiny band" bit, the light came up on the platform, and the band actually stood up and waived- so it worked well for that bit. 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 10:43am

Interestingly, though, the originals productions of both Side Man and Master Class played the Golden in the 90s (two plays that include large amounts of music).  So tracing the trajectory of the productions, you could almost say they were warming up for Avenue Q by transitioning to a couple big plays with music and then finally having a long-running musical.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 5:58pm

DiscoCrows said: "Canned as in some sort oftracked accompaniment? And yeah, I canimagine the actual physical space being anissue as well."

Yeah. I'm on the opposite coast and performing musicals to recorded audio tracks has become quite common. I think it's absolutely death to a musical, because a live conductor and musicians contribute so much to pacing. I saw a SWEENEY TODD where the Beggar Woman was way off key (a third to a fifth) for the entire show. A live musical director would have been pounding the right notes on the piano until she heard where she was supposed to be.

Musician minimums are usually only issues to straight plays which need no musicians at all. A small musical at the Golden wouldn't have a problem meeting the requirement, if it is indeed only three, as reported above.

Updated On: 6/15/20 at 05:58 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 6:01pm

Broadway61004 said: "Interestingly, though, the originals productions of both Side Man and Master Class played the Golden in the 90s (two plays that include large amounts of music). So tracing the trajectory of the productions, you could almost say they were warming up for Avenue Q by transitioning to a couple big plays with music and then finally having a long-running musical."

Doesn't MASTER CLASS have just the one piano player on stage? The Golden has hosted lots of special events with musical people like Sammy Cahn and Comden & Green. I'm sure they had at least a piano player to demonstrate their work.

[markypoo]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 7:46pm

It's been almost 40 years, but I did see Tintypes there in November 1980.
My only time inside the Golden.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 6/15/20 at 11:14pm

Tiny cast also.  

I personally am disappointed that, with this era of unprecedented long-runs, so many houses that used to present primarily plays, so often are booked for years with musicals, e.g., The Music Box and the Plymouth (er, either the Jacobs or Schoenfeld -- mental block), to name 2.  

Deep down inside, I do realize that that is because the demand for musicals far exceeds that for plays, which was not near as extreme 50 years ago.  I still hate it when a long-run musical takes over a traditionally straight play theatre.  Thank goodness that we have Roundabout and MTC, even if the Roundabout track record for good results is spotty.