Why do Producers hate Bootlegs?

[zainmax]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 3:45pm

I read in this article that the producer of HAMILTON hired someone full-time to look for and takedown bootlegs of the show. Why do producers hate bootlegs so much? I know that its illegal, but doesnt it actually motivate people to buy tickets, which means more $$$?

Bootleg Article

Updated On: 5/30/20 at 03:45 PM

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 3:50pm

Why would it motivate people to buy tickets when they can sit at home and watch it for free?  I mean, yes, maybe a few people decide to buy tickets as a result, but far more would say "well, I can watch it for free from the comfort of my own home, no need to buy tickets to the real thing now".  Plus it's illegal and every single actor, writer, designer, musician, director is technically owed royalties from it, which they obviously will never get.

[blaxx]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 3:56pm

I hope this dumb thread gets deleted.

[Wick3]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 3:56pm

zainmax said: "I read in this article that the producer of HAMILTON hired someone full-time to look for and takedown bootlegs of the show. Why do producers hate bootlegs so much? I know that its illegal, but doesnt it actually motivate people to buy tickets, which means more $$$?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marchershberg/2020/05/29/copyright-office-urges-congress-to-curb-broadway-bootlegs/"

Hamilton was making $300 million a week for more than 3 years! Hamilton's producers can definitely hire someone full time to do that.

[binau]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 4:00pm

Here we go again!

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 4:03pm

If that's their full-time job, then they're horrible at it, considering that there's a not-hard-to-find bootleg that's been on YouTube for over 4 years.

[blaxx]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 4:05pm

I love that when it comes to things people feel entitled to, they can use double standards to their benefit:

Theft: Illegal
Fraud: Illegal
Bootlegs: That's ok because I live in Alabama and have no money and I couldn't enjoy mah Broadway otherwise.

[zainmax]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 4:07pm

Broadway61004 said: "Why would it motivate people to buy tickets when they can sit at home and watch it for free? I mean, yes, maybe a few people decide to buy tickets as a result, but far more would say "well, I can watch it for free from the comfort of my own home, no need to buy tickets to the real thing now". Plus it's illegal and every single actor, writer, designer, musician, director is technically owed royalties from it, which they obviously will never get."

Oh I don’t disagree. I was simply wondering about whether it really takes away from ticket sales.

 Do people choose to watch bootlegs instead of seeing the shows in person?? I don’t think so..

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 4:09pm

This thread is unnecessary. Here's the link to the most recent bootleg thread (also unnecessary)

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1122012&page=1

Updated On: 5/29/20 at 04:09 PM

[zainmax]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 4:09pm

Btw, I was more curious in the producers’ argument that it reduces ticket sales, which is mentioned in the article. I don’t buy it, although it obviously steals $$$ from the creators..

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 4:17pm

"Hamilton was making $300 million a week for more than 3 years! Hamilton's producers can definitely hire someone full time to do that."

Um, no.

Updated On: 5/29/20 at 04:17 PM

[zainmax]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 4:21pm

CT2NYC said: "This thread is unnecessary. Here's the link to the most recent bootleg thread (also unnecessary)

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1122012&page=1"

Will read.. thanks!

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 6:20pm

Me, the person who started the last bootleg thread and realized that nothing good comes out of this conversation, no matter how it's framed:

[VANESSA, speaking on the phone]
Nooo!
No no nooo!
No no nooo, no-no-no!
Nooo, no-no-no!
No-no-no-no-no-no-no-no, no-no-no-no-no!

[jpbran]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 6:24pm

Hamilton was making $300 million a week for more than 3 years! Hamilton's producers can definitely hire someone full time to do that."

Hahaha... That would be almost $47 BILLION dollars. It MIGHT have been making $5-10m/week at the highest points (including all productions + tours). 

Updated On: 5/29/20 at 06:24 PM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 6:26pm

I know. I laughed my a*s off at that ridiculous comment. 

[itsjustmejonhotmailcom]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 6:58pm

zainmax said: "Btw, I was more curious in the producers’ argument that it reduces ticket sales, which is mentioned in the article. I don’t buy it, although it obviously steals $$$ from the creators.."

If you click through to the announcement from the Copyright Office mentioned in that article, you'll find that they don't mention Broadway or theatre at all. That particular blogger at Forbes is known for being misleading and using clickbaity headlines. That being said, if you don't enforce your copyright, you can be at risk of losing it. A recap here: https://www.varnumlaw.com/newsroom-publications-enforce-your-intellectual-property-or-risk-losing-it

 

TL;DR 

"If you don't take adequate or sufficient, reasonable means to protect and enforce your IP, then you run the risk of losing your IP rights. What is sufficient and reasonable action is not always clear; it depends on the situation. But, suffice it to say, if you know someone is using your IP without your authorization, you should promptly look into it to determine what, if anything, should and needs to be done so that you don't lose one of your most important business assets – your valuable intellectual property."

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 7:11pm

I don't know why these threads on bootlegs always amuse me so much. I guess because there will always be bootlegs and there will always be people who hate them.

I was amused watching the final curtain call for Be More Chill when Joe Iconis says something like "What we're about to do isn't part of the regular show, so it's probably legal to record this. You don't have to surreptitiously film this part without your phones being seen like you've all been doing for the past six months" and literally everyone laughs. The honesty at that moment--and that he was more pleased with the love for the show than what piracy might have done to the box office--pleased me immensely. 

[lachri5]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 8:48pm

I can't imagine a world where producers encourage bootlegs. A theatre full of camera lens like at a concert, and hundreds of versions of bootlegs show up every day on YouTube. No.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 11:10pm

itsjustmejonhotmailcom said: "That being said, if you don't enforce your copyright, you can be at risk of losing it. A recap here:https://www.varnumlaw.com/newsroom-publications-enforce-your-intellectual-property-or-risk-losing-it."

That's actually not true, at least not in the way it is implied. You can only lose a copyright by 1. It being determined to have been a work-for-hire, so it was never yours; 2. Sell or transfer the copyright to another party; 3. It expires naturally based on the time period defined in the law. 4. It was never yours as determined by a court (though that comes more under no. 1).

However,  if you don't enforce your copyright,  the monetary value can diminish in an infringement claim. 

Producers, like most other rights holders, want to protect the value of their property. Also they want to obviously control their product.  How many times do people here complain about criticisms of actors based on a bootleg performance? Same principle here. They don't want shaky footage,  or an off-performance, representing their show (even if it's only"clips" being made available). And whike there might be people aren't seeing shows because they saw a bootleg, they are too insignificant that it's not a concern. 

Updated On: 5/29/20 at 11:10 PM

[zainmax]

Posted: 5/29/20 at 11:16pm

Fossee, this is what I wanted! Thanks so much..

Saw David Stone saying bootlegs are a good marketing tool and was confused about the whole “they see bootleg and don’t see show” argument.

What is your opinion on the bootleg recording debate?
I hate it, but I think it’s a good marketing tool because audience members know that if they’re only seeing something on YouTube, it makes them more excited about the material. A bootleg recording might whet your appetite for a show, and audiences are smart enough to realize that a bootleg recording is just an approximation of what is happening onstage.

Source: https://operateen.wordpress.com/2016/02/22/the-producer-a-conversation-with-broadways-david-stone/

Updated On: 5/29/20 at 11:16 PM

[bear88]

Posted: 5/30/20 at 12:30am

MollyJeanneMusic said: "Me, the person who started the last bootleg thread and realized that nothing good comes out of this conversation, no matter how it's framed:

[VANESSA,speaking on the phone]
Nooo!
No no nooo!
No no nooo, no-no-no!
Nooo, no-no-no!
No-no-no-no-no-no-no-no, no-no-no-no-no!"

Ha. And you really tried too.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 5/30/20 at 1:10am

David Stone is ahead of his time and we truly don’t deserve him.

There are so many bootlegs on YouTube, it’s kind of curious why none of them have been taken down. Like why are the several bootlegs of An*thing Goes not being copyrighted by Roundabout or how come you still see the Ca*rie video? I just think, producers don’t care/are complicit to the illegal videos.

[zainmax]

Posted: 5/30/20 at 1:31am

Call_me_jorge said: "David Stone is ahead of his time and we truly don’t deserve him.

There are so many bootlegs on YouTube, it’s kind of curious why none of them have been taken down. Like why are the several bootlegs of An*thing Goes not being copyrighted by Roundabout or how come you still see the Ca*rie video? I just think, producers don’t care/are complicit to the illegal videos. "

That’s what got me curious... like, how much are they really hated by producers?

[itsjustmejonhotmailcom]

Posted: 5/30/20 at 2:11am

Call_me_jorge said: "David Stone is ahead of his time and we truly don’t deserve him.

There are so many bootlegs on YouTube, it’s kind of curious why none of them have been taken down. Like why are the several bootlegs of An*thing Goes not being copyrighted by Roundabout or how come you still see the Ca*rie video? I just think, producers don’t care/are complicit to the illegal videos."

A lot of it has to do with the way shows are set up. When a show is running the GM or Producer's office often takes care of that. When a show closes, there usually isn't anyone left on the payroll to monitor those things or respond to reports of bootlegs.

[Wick3]

Posted: 5/30/20 at 8:39am

Sutton Ross said: ""Hamilton was making $300 million a week for more than 3 years! Hamilton's producers can definitely hire someone full time to do that."

Um, no."

I meant $3 million! Whoops! Must have had a few drinks already!